this post doesn't make any sense. nobody is saying that the STi isn't a potent performer, because it is. nobody's saying the new WRX isn't lightyears better than the POS it's replacing, because it is. nobody is saying either of the cars aren't great, because they are. we're just saying that there are elements of the EVO/Ralliart that are better. somebody's got to be better. that's just the way it is. there are no ties in life. in this battle, on the points we've been discussing, the mitsubishi's are just better. that doesn't make the subaru's bad at all. they just aren't quite as good as the mitsu's. why is that such a hard pill to swallow? if you want to be mad at somebody, be mad at subaru for their designs. i'm sorry, but the AWD system of the WRX isn't even close to what the Ralliart/EVO IX has under it. i don't see how anybody that understands how the two systems are designed can even try to argue that. the STi fights the EVO, not the WRX. with the new ralliart, you've basically got an underpowered EVO going against the WRX. handling wise, the ralliart should beat the WRX, but the WRX will win races because of the power. make no mistake, the WRX will win, but don't kid yourself by attributing that victory to anything but power.

 

You are exaggerating as nobody said that but being a former SRT4 with S2 owner I can say that in a straight line it's not entirely untrue lol.

 

This is absolutely ridiculous, when a test goes against your presumptions, it's flawed yet when a test confirms them, it's a model that should be held up for all to see. You can't honestly think it's fair to sit there and say that the Ralliart should be allowed to run better tires for a comparison but the WRX can't have anything changed. It's not Subaru's fault that Mitsubishi made the Ralliart obscenely heavy for what it is. Moreover, tires may not be the factor holding the WRX back, it's entirely possible that the largest hinderance is the rear sway bar, or the stock shifter, or the stock tune so how can you say it's appropriate to make a drastic change on the Ralliart (since the tires are a major problem), a mild change to the WRX and then compare them outright?

 

Why is it a hard pill to swallow? Because it's poison. The Mitsubishi is not outright better, it is better at some things and worse at others. As I said before, there was a recent thread in the motorsports section discussing autocross classes and *gasp* in some classes, the STI is better than the Evo. Why? Because the modifications are better suited to the STI. Does this mean the Evo is inferior? No, it just doesn't win in this case. You might as well argue that Phelps is a better athlete than Bolt.
How will the Ralliart outhandle the new WRX when it barely squeaked out the 08 model that was softer with all-season tires?

 

This thread has gone back and forth and accomplished nothing. The 2009 WRX and Ralliart are similar in specs but different in approach. The Ralliart takes the finesse approach with a high tech transmission, more advanced AWD system and most likely the better daily driver for the person that doesn't go to the track which in reality is 95% of buyers. The WRX takes the more american approach of adding big power and increasing shock/spring rates which will make it probably the better track car for the 5% that really need it.

All that's left is styling which is a personal preference.

 

YEah well the Mazdaspeed 3 is faster than everything in this thread. Now What!

 

I would hardly call the WRX an american style car. It's not like they bumped the power way up there or made it unbearably stiff, they simply made it competitive. Power wise it's nearly identical to the Ralliart and I would bet the spring rates and valving are similar as well. The WRX is simply lighter. Neither will be especially great daily drivers as the fuel economy will suck, you're kidding yourself if you think it's a wise choice in that sense or even a smart choice as far as comfort is concerned. I'm lucky to get 550 KM to a 60 L tank (roughly 19 MPG) and I do mostly highway driving.

 

Here's an article by AMS (one of the top Evo tuners in America) discussing the huge gains they saw with bolt-ons. Notice how the car gains more power for less money than the Evo (thus going against the assumption that the Evo is a better tuner car).
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...hlight=AMS+STI
Here's another article by AMS comparing how the cars handle on track. Again notice how they commend the STI for its prowess.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...hlight=AMS+STI

 

Man, only 19 mpg? Do you have any mods to your car? I keep going back in forth between the ralliart and wrx. I know I'll use the car for mostly daily driving, but want something fun in the winter. It seems the RA would be the best choice, but I like the power the wrx is putting out without having to mod it right away. I just wish it came with a 6-speed. As for the mitsu, I wish it was'nt so heavy and had better tires. Any way, I guess I won't know for sure until I drive them.
btw, I thought smaller engines with turbos are supposed to get better mileage than a bigger engine? I was hoping for at least mid-20's highway. I guess the awd and weight doesn't help. I'm also anxious to see what kind of mileage the gencoupe V6 will get. You wouldn't think it would get as good as a turbo-4, but if it does, I don't know...then I have to think if the rwd would be worth it in the winter months.

 

I know a guy with an 07 WRX and he gets near 30 MPG highway all the time. His is the hatch. Claims mid 20's city. NASIOC also has members that get mid to high 20's average. So the Subies seem to get better than advertised MPG in real life. No facts just anecdotal.

I found this on the transmission of the new GTR. I hope the SST is not like this!!

One of my techs just got back from a special Nissan training GTR deal. Here are some interesting Facts.
-Can only launch the car 15 times before the transmission gives out. The most Nissan has got was 34 launches.
-The fluid lists at 80 dollars a quart. It costs dealerships 49.99 a quart. The car takes 10 quarts.
-The warranty depends on the driving, there is a black box in it just like an airplane.
-Customers have to sign a waiver stating they will not complain about brake or transmission noise.
-The brakes MUST be replaced at the same time, cost for replacing 6500.
-If something goes wrong other than an oil change at the dealership, a special team needs to be called and your outta a car for a while.

So yea. Sounds promising. Sounds fast, for a couple of months.

 

Also, I am baffled why MITSU is going with cruddy tires on the RA. Possibly better MPG with narrow tires?

 

The big problem is the turbo, the car is pretty damn efficient if you never hit boost but that's not as easy as it sounds when you hit full boost by 3000 RPM. 19 MPG isn't that bad, at the track I was getting 7 MPG while the STI boys were getting 6 MPG at best.

 

Everybody knows the old STI doesn't respond as well to mods as the evo 8 and 9. Even when an STI makes good numbers on the dyno they still are slow at the track and they dont hold up. In other words, if a STI makes over 400whp on Buschur's dyno it doesn't run ten's in the quarter mile and the evo does.


The 08 evo x and sti I'm not sure about but the STI looks terrible.

 

The tires aren't cruddy (they are dedicated summers after all), they just get overloaded since the cars weighs so much. I think with wider tires (say 225 or 235) and a diet, the Ralliart could post some good numbers but Mitsubishi's decision to use the GTS fenders seriously limits what you can do without rolling. Hell, the stock Evo tires would be pushing it and they're only 245s.

 

Feel free to argue with AMS since they clearly say that the STI made more power than an Evo for less money. Buschur actually has a drag WRX and from what I remember, it was pulling very good numbers. I'll see if I can dig up the thread. I find it funny how people are arguing against numbers obtained by extremely credible sources (like AMS or Buschur that are not Subaru-specific tuners). How can you say that the STI doesn't respond well to mods when AMS has shown that not to be the case?