i've heard that once or twice about the old S-AYC on the EVO 8 because it was too sensitive and could cause the car to behave differently in certain situations, such as quick direction changes like slaloms. in that situation it might over compensate for the movement to help you turn in harder, as if you're commiting hard to a longer corner, but it doesn't know that you're just about to turn back in the opposite direction. that's about the extent of what i've heard, and i can't see why anybody would say that they'd rather not have it at all. they tweaked it a bit on the IX in the form of S-AYC II to take out some of the sensitivity, and again on the X as part of the SAWC. bottom line is AYC is GOOD. think about it...sending more power to the outside rear wheel will help the car turn, simple. the car is faster with it than without it. there are plenty of race teams in japan that added it to cars that didn't have it. i know i wish i had it. it's just like acura's SH-AWD. it has it's own form of AYC as well, and it's a very very good thing.

 

So what, faster is faster. Hell it wouldn't matter if the two cars were identical in speed, the STI can and does keep up. Does it drive like an evo? No, but clearly how the STI goes around the track is just as fast. If we had telemetry data we might be able to analysis is better. Maybe the STI is slower in the corners but faster out of the corners, who knows.
Actually AMS did some testing with the 07 STI and *gasp* found it to be just as fast as the evo. Moreover, you yourself have said that a difference of only a few tenths of a second is insignificant and that is quite often what the difference between the STI and the evo is.
Again, AMS and Buschur are challenging the assumption that the evo responds better to mods.
Once you get into modding, all bets are off. You can swap turbos on the WRX as well, it's not like it's unmoddable. People keep on saying that the AWD system is better but I fail to see how. If it works, it works. Granted the lack of LSDs in the new model is something of a stupid decision on Subaru's part but the system still works apparently. The Ralliart is also extraordinarily heavy so it'll have to overcome that as well.

 

So the heavier car with less power was almost as fast as the STI around the track?

 

I thought this thread was about the '09 WRX? Why are you guys talking about the STI versus Evo?

 

They were using a 360 HP variant for much of the review and used a 300 HP variant for the test lap. Moreover, I believe it had the SST transmission since it cost around 5000 pounds (8000$) more than the STI.

 

Ok, so same power more weight? A heavier car doing just as good in the corners. I think thats pretty good then.

The SST transmission is the auto tranny right(I'm still learning)? If so, why are so many people complaining about the transmission in the RA if it does just as good as the manual? Is it that you(general) just like having that control or feel, or would it be faster with the manual? I'm just assuming that the trannys are the same/similar since a lot of the rest of the car is the same.


I read through a lot of this thread but not everything so I may be repeating some things or may just be way off.

 

I figured it was just because those were the only cars that are actually out already. And since the 09 WRX and the RA are pretty much detuned versions of the STI and the Evo, it is somewhat relevant. But of course it'll still be different than the actual WRX and RA.

 

I never said the evo wasn't a formidable car, I'm simply saying that the STI is a formidable car as well and to declare one a winner boils down to personal preference.
The problems with the SST are it's not a true manual, it's expensive to replace/upgrade and there's no knowing how much power it can reliably take. If you watched the Fifth Gear video of the Evo vs. STI, you'd notice that the SST tranny holds it back a bit during some of the testing (ebrake turns make it **** a brick and it doesn't launch well unless you activate launch control).

 

i'm talking simple bolt ons. with simple bolt ons, the EVO's do make more power. I have friends with modded STi's, and my EVO with just it's little catback is faster. and yes the EVO's AWD system is better. Acura's system is better than subaru's too. The biggest thing that makes it better is AYC. subaru doesn't have that. all it has is it's version of ACD, and yes the lack of differentials does hurt. i never said subaru's were unmoddable (not a word, but okay), but history has shown time and time again that you get more for your money when it comes to modding EVO's. don't get mad at me, i didn't tell subaru to make a slower car. and the point i was trying to make with the subaru winning is that it won by such a small margin that more tests are needed to determine which car really is the fastest. also, i think it's stupid to only refer to one test, top gears, to say that the car is faster. those were both vehicles that we don't get in america. when tested, the new EVO has beaten the new STi in a good bit of comparo's in str8 line speed, and lap times.

motortrends test: outcome, EVO faster around a race track, and big surprise, EVO wins the comparo. Motortrend

caranddriver's test: outcome, EVO is faster, and big surprise, EVO wins the comparo. the STi doesn't even finish second. the VW R32 does.
caranddriver

so the STi won one head to head lap battle on one track by less than the blink of an eye, yet the EVO beat it around buttonwillow by more than a second, and to 60mph by .4 seconds. doesn't look like the new STi is faster than the new EVO. just because the new WRX has a lot of power, doesn't mean it's going to trump the ralliart as bad as you're trying to make it out to be. i don't know what the new STi motors are like, but there's no denying that the 4B11T is a beast when it starts modding. intake, piping, and a tune, and you've basically got a modded EVO X motor with EVO IX's handling. not a bad combo at all. that should be enough to easily take care of the new WRX. if it really is the same motor except for intake, piping and tune, you should see HUGE gains when changing those to some of the parts that they make for the X. if the X is making 100hp from intake and tune, the ralliart should make more over it's baseline because it comes with a much worse tune, and worse intake than the X.

 

Feel free to read the thread made by AMS in regards to the STI's potential. The car is not an evo and as such, the best modding pathway is inherently different.
Define a better AWD system. The DCCD system in the STI is pretty damn good and is regularly applauded for its effectiveness. Sure it doesn't have AYC but you are making the assumption that complexity equates to superiority. The STI has three diffs so that point is moot. There's a thread in the motorsports section regarding autocross classes and *gasp*, the STI is better in some classes than the Evo.
Yes the Evo has won in some comparisons, but so has the STI. It's somewhat hypocritical to sit there and say that more tests are needed, reference tests where the evo was faster and essentially dismiss the tests where the STI was faster/preferred.
The Ralliart will not handle like the Evo IX, it's heavier with crappier tires and a less performance oriented steering system.
Again, saying "when the Ralliart is modded, it'll beat the WRX" is irrelevant. A modded WRX can beat and Evo X without even trying if you mod it right but no one would argue that the WRX is a better performer.
I'm not going to lie, I like the Evo. If the border had been opened when I was looking at a new car, I would have bought an Evo IX RS. However, this doesn't mean I dismiss the STI as inferior. It's just a different brother from the same mother. Is the Evo better in some regards? Hell yes, I wish my car had the steering rack of the Evo or the bulletproof 5-Speed tranny but there are aspects of the STI that I really like as well (DCCD, strong diffs, great torque, etc). As I said before, trying to make one a winner over the other requires a strong bias one way or the other and you essentially have to pick and choose what qualities you think are vastly important and which tests you trust.

 

Oh and before someone says I'm biased, I regularly defend the Evo and the Ralliart when I get into discussions with friends in the local Subaru club.

 

lol you are biased. you're an STi fanboy. plain and simple. the ralliart may be heavier than the EVO X, but the chassis is a lot stiffer, and should do very well. as far as autocross, unless the cars are going mod for mod with equal drivers, that doesn't really matter. i regularly whoop up on an STi with 100hp more than me, and probably 5k more put into his suspension. i attribute that to me being the better driver, not the EVO's superiority to the STi.

as for the AWD system, it's pretty simple. AYC helps bigtime. look at what it does...sends power to the outside rear wheel. makes the car turn lol. there's not much disputing that. nobody said that the STi's drivetrain doesn't work. it works really well. just not as well as the EVO's. as for being a hypocrite, i'm not the one that refered to ONE test (top gear) and proclaimed one car king. the STi does win some comparo's, but the EVO wins more, and in all of the latest comparisons, the EVO has been faster. Don't get mad at me. get mad at subaru for building a car that isn't as fast as the EVO lol. i'll give it to them, it looks like they did a good job with the upcoming WRX, but the only advantage i'll give it to the Ralliart is the power. the AWD system isn't as good, and it's just as heavy. it's a big upgrade compared to the 08 WRX because that car was crap. The ralliart would eat that car alive. so subaru stepped it's game up and delivered a car that is slightly better on paper than the ralliart. but like i said, the only advantage i see for the WRX is the power. an advantage the STi has over the EVO, and has always had, but has still been slower in a str8 line, and around a racetrack...so it might not be as big of an advantage as it seems. i guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

How am I an STI fanboy when I argue against the STI regularly? Moreover, do you see me saying anywhere that the STI is better/superior?
Considering that autocrossing revolves around specific classes where only certain mods are allowed, its very relevant.
Again, the evos drivetrain is great, the STIs drivetrain is great, neither is superior to the other.
Where did I declare the STI king?
The WRX isn't as heavy as the Ralliart, it's substantially lighter.
The Ralliart doesn't eat the 08 WRX alive, most tests put the cars as essentially equal.

 

my opinion , between the STI and the Evo is always the better driver wins on the same upgraded level.

period.

 

i didn't think they'd tested the 09 ralliart against the 09 WRX. hadn't seen that yet. whether you argue against the STi regularly or not, you're certainly acting biased. and the reason i say the EVO's AWD system and handling is better is because it is. it's been tested and proven. 08 EVO skidpad #'s .99G, 70.9mph through the slalom. 08 STi skidpad #'s .91G, 70.2mph through the slalom.