TTP-Engineering Tunes the 2009 Ralliart 4b11
Haha it doesn't take a rocket scientist to read a dyno chart. I actually learned how to read a dyno in 3rd grade when i learned line graphs. And the RA is losing 17 horsepower, the Evo is losing 39 horsepower. I'd say that's a much bigger gap on claimed numbers. So would it be safer to say the Evo is overrated then? Would that make you feel better?
Actually, yes CharlesJ former staff member Admin did do away with moderator vendor signatures. Unless the rules have changed since, it has been disallowed for a few years now.
Its no secret also that vendors are held to a higher posting standard than regular members.
Back on topic... Personally we do not see how a WRX to Ralliart comparison has any place within this thread.
Its no secret also that vendors are held to a higher posting standard than regular members.
Back on topic... Personally we do not see how a WRX to Ralliart comparison has any place within this thread.
Untill proven otherwise, why do you think it could not be producing these numbers?
I have only looked quickly, but the fuel/timing maps looked more refined. I could be wrong as I only looked quickly. This could easily account for a few more HP getting it closer to the Evo numbers.
I have only looked quickly, but the fuel/timing maps looked more refined. I could be wrong as I only looked quickly. This could easily account for a few more HP getting it closer to the Evo numbers.
Reading a dyno is easy but as demonstrated in multiple threads on evom, understanding a dyno is surprisingly difficult. You cannot just say "Ralliart loses 17 HP, Evo loses 39 HP therefore the Ralliart is underrated". What percentage of the total is that? How much power is lost by the two different drivetrains? Are the results for the Evo directly comparable? Look at the torque numbers, do you honestly believe that the Ralliart only has 14 less WTQ than the Evo? Do you really think it's making 286 crank torque?
Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: MD
So basically 3 different unrelated tuners all post dyno charts showing the RA right around 220 whp, and they're all wrong and inaccurate because you guys on the forum who have probably never seen an RA in person say so? That's certainly reasonable of you...
Amby are you actually assigned to moderate the RA forum are you simply here to quash any discussion between current owners and people who actually LIKE the car? Between all the EVO, WRX, and MS3 owners hating on the RA in this section, there won't be any actual community for the RA people here.
Amby are you actually assigned to moderate the RA forum are you simply here to quash any discussion between current owners and people who actually LIKE the car? Between all the EVO, WRX, and MS3 owners hating on the RA in this section, there won't be any actual community for the RA people here.
So basically 3 different unrelated tuners all post dyno charts showing the RA right around 220 whp, and they're all wrong and inaccurate because you guys on the forum who have probably never seen an RA in person say so? That's certainly reasonable of you...
Amby are you actually assigned to moderate the RA forum are you simply here to quash any discussion between current owners and people who actually LIKE the car? Between all the EVO, WRX, and MS3 owners hating on the RA in this section, there won't be any actual community for the RA people here.
Amby are you actually assigned to moderate the RA forum are you simply here to quash any discussion between current owners and people who actually LIKE the car? Between all the EVO, WRX, and MS3 owners hating on the RA in this section, there won't be any actual community for the RA people here.
So basically 3 different unrelated tuners all post dyno charts showing the RA right around 220 whp, and they're all wrong and inaccurate because you guys on the forum who have probably never seen an RA in person say so? That's certainly reasonable of you...
Amby are you actually assigned to moderate the RA forum are you simply here to quash any discussion between current owners and people who actually LIKE the car? Between all the EVO, WRX, and MS3 owners hating on the RA in this section, there won't be any actual community for the RA people here.
Amby are you actually assigned to moderate the RA forum are you simply here to quash any discussion between current owners and people who actually LIKE the car? Between all the EVO, WRX, and MS3 owners hating on the RA in this section, there won't be any actual community for the RA people here.
When did I quash discussion? If you look, this thread is massive much like many other Ralliart threads. I am encourage discussions and I encourage community but for god's sake, take your head out of the sand.
You guys simply don't get it. The number is completely meaningless, literally meaningless. It doesn't matter if the Ralliart dynos at 110 WHP, 300 WHP, 220 WHP, whatever, what matter is how it compares to other cars. Now then, if an Evo dynos at 252 WHP on the same dyno, it's a pretty high reading dyno. I did the math and if we make a lot of false assumptions, the Ralliart puts out about 250 HP. If we actually look at the numbers though, they don't make sense. Do you honestly believe that the Ralliart is putting out 286 ft-lbs of torque? No one has answered this. If we do a straight across comparison between the Evo dyno and the Ralliart dyno, the torque level has to be stupidly high. This then raises the question of why the performance numbers are so low.
When did I quash discussion? If you look, this thread is massive much like many other Ralliart threads. I am encourage discussions and I encourage community but for god's sake, take your head out of the sand.
When did I quash discussion? If you look, this thread is massive much like many other Ralliart threads. I am encourage discussions and I encourage community but for god's sake, take your head out of the sand.
The Baseline
After Z Chip Tune
Last edited by Dave@TTP; Dec 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM.
286 ft-lbs of torque to the crank, not the wheels. The base run for the Evo has a WTQ of 256, the base run of the Ralliart has a WTQ of 242. 256-242=14. The Evo has a claimed crank torque of 300 thus 300-14=286. If take it as a percentage, the WTQ on the Evo is 85% of the claimed crank power. If we apply this correction factor to the Ralliart WTQ, we get 284 crank torque.
You guys simply don't get it. The number is completely meaningless, literally meaningless. It doesn't matter if the Ralliart dynos at 110 WHP, 300 WHP, 220 WHP, whatever, what matter is how it compares to other cars. Now then, if an Evo dynos at 252 WHP on the same dyno, it's a pretty high reading dyno. I did the math and if we make a lot of false assumptions, the Ralliart puts out about 250 HP. If we actually look at the numbers though, they don't make sense. Do you honestly believe that the Ralliart is putting out 286 ft-lbs of torque? No one has answered this. If we do a straight across comparison between the Evo dyno and the Ralliart dyno, the torque level has to be stupidly high. This then raises the question of why the performance numbers are so low.
When did I quash discussion? If you look, this thread is massive much like many other Ralliart threads. I am encourage discussions and I encourage community but for god's sake, take your head out of the sand.
When did I quash discussion? If you look, this thread is massive much like many other Ralliart threads. I am encourage discussions and I encourage community but for god's sake, take your head out of the sand.
I seriously do not understand why this a difficult concept.
Why do different dynos produce different numbers? Why can the same car produce 180 WHP on one dyno, 150 WHP on another and 210 WHP on yet another? Has the car changed? If I give you a number, lets say 110 WHP, what does that mean?
Why do different dynos produce different numbers? Why can the same car produce 180 WHP on one dyno, 150 WHP on another and 210 WHP on yet another? Has the car changed? If I give you a number, lets say 110 WHP, what does that mean?
Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: MD
You guys simply don't get it. The number is completely meaningless, literally meaningless. It doesn't matter if the Ralliart dynos at 110 WHP, 300 WHP, 220 WHP, whatever, what matter is how it compares to other cars. Now then, if an Evo dynos at 252 WHP on the same dyno, it's a pretty high reading dyno. I did the math and if we make a lot of false assumptions, the Ralliart puts out about 250 HP. If we actually look at the numbers though, they don't make sense. Do you honestly believe that the Ralliart is putting out 286 ft-lbs of torque? No one has answered this. If we do a straight across comparison between the Evo dyno and the Ralliart dyno, the torque level has to be stupidly high. This then raises the question of why the performance numbers are so low.
When did I quash discussion? If you look, this thread is massive much like many other Ralliart threads. I am encourage discussions and I encourage community but for god's sake, take your head out of the sand.
When did I quash discussion? If you look, this thread is massive much like many other Ralliart threads. I am encourage discussions and I encourage community but for god's sake, take your head out of the sand.