TTP-Engineering Tunes the 2009 Ralliart 4b11
Hey Madcows! I already had that show down with amby in the 'comparison' thread, and I finally gave up, you should read it, it's quite entertaining in the last 10pages or so!!
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...383242&page=25
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...383242&page=25
^^ because you've never done that before...lol. We are all guilty.
Evolved Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
From: michigan
I couldn't say with certainty that the R/A is NOT underrated.
You certainly could have a point about what constitutes a significant or insignificant amount of power. But that's all relative. I personally feel that 5hp isn't significant - that's my stance on the subject. And neither can I say with certainty the amount of power the diffs in each car eats up, but my experience would suggest that the *differences* between the two would be in the neighborhood of 5hp.
I also didn't claim they are the exact same, but they are similar enough to be able to get a pretty good estimate (I said estimate) of the power differences. Compared to the drivetrain in a Subaru, for example, they are practically the same. Again, if the only difference is in the drivetrain, then it's really not significant, because most powertrain loss is in the trans itself. If we really wanted to get into the nitty gritty, we would simply have to dyno each engine by itself, obviously. But were not going to do that, so we have to work with what we got.
You certainly could have a point about what constitutes a significant or insignificant amount of power. But that's all relative. I personally feel that 5hp isn't significant - that's my stance on the subject. And neither can I say with certainty the amount of power the diffs in each car eats up, but my experience would suggest that the *differences* between the two would be in the neighborhood of 5hp.
I also didn't claim they are the exact same, but they are similar enough to be able to get a pretty good estimate (I said estimate) of the power differences. Compared to the drivetrain in a Subaru, for example, they are practically the same. Again, if the only difference is in the drivetrain, then it's really not significant, because most powertrain loss is in the trans itself. If we really wanted to get into the nitty gritty, we would simply have to dyno each engine by itself, obviously. But were not going to do that, so we have to work with what we got.
5 WHP can be significant though. If the cars differ by 5 WHP, it either means the Evo is down 5 WHP or the Ralliart is up 5 WHP. Estimates are no good in this situation, you need exact values. If I'm trying to figure out who lives closer to a set point, is a 5 mile variation significant? If one lives 10 miles away while the other lives 100 miles away, no but if one lives 26 miles away and the other lives 29 miles away, 5 miles is significant.
What you have suggested is exactly what the manufacturer did.
What you have suggested is exactly what the manufacturer did.
you have spoken like a true politician,...i am more confused than before you posted this
I couldn't say with certainty that the R/A is NOT underrated.
You certainly could have a point about what constitutes a significant or insignificant amount of power. But that's all relative. I personally feel that 5hp isn't significant - that's my stance on the subject. And neither can I say with certainty the amount of power the diffs in each car eats up, but my experience would suggest that the *differences* between the two would be in the neighborhood of 5hp.
I also didn't claim they are the exact same, but they are similar enough to be able to get a pretty good estimate (I said estimate) of the power differences. Compared to the drivetrain in a Subaru, for example, they are practically the same. Again, if the only difference is in the drivetrain, then it's really not significant, because most powertrain loss is in the trans itself. If we really wanted to get into the nitty gritty, we would simply have to dyno each engine by itself, obviously. But were not going to do that, so we have to work with what we got.
You certainly could have a point about what constitutes a significant or insignificant amount of power. But that's all relative. I personally feel that 5hp isn't significant - that's my stance on the subject. And neither can I say with certainty the amount of power the diffs in each car eats up, but my experience would suggest that the *differences* between the two would be in the neighborhood of 5hp.
I also didn't claim they are the exact same, but they are similar enough to be able to get a pretty good estimate (I said estimate) of the power differences. Compared to the drivetrain in a Subaru, for example, they are practically the same. Again, if the only difference is in the drivetrain, then it's really not significant, because most powertrain loss is in the trans itself. If we really wanted to get into the nitty gritty, we would simply have to dyno each engine by itself, obviously. But were not going to do that, so we have to work with what we got.
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Midwest
5 WHP can be significant though. If the cars differ by 5 WHP, it either means the Evo is down 5 WHP or the Ralliart is up 5 WHP. Estimates are no good in this situation, you need exact values. If I'm trying to figure out who lives closer to a set point, is a 5 mile variation significant? If one lives 10 miles away while the other lives 100 miles away, no but if one lives 26 miles away and the other lives 29 miles away, 5 miles is significant.
What you have suggested is exactly what the manufacturer did.
What you have suggested is exactly what the manufacturer did.
What makes a value significant is not the value itself, it's how the value relates to whatever you are comparing it to. As an example, if you gain 5 WHP on a 500 WHP car, you've gained 1%. No one is going to rant about 1%, that's within the natural error rate of most if not all dynos and it's not something you'll be able to feel. If you gain 5 WHP on a 100 WHP car however that may be significant since it's a 5% gain. If you want a real world example, if a 250 lb man loses 3 lbs, no one cares but if a 30 lb child loses 3 lbs, doctors are scrambling to figure out why.
Evolving Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 261
Likes: 1
From: Kelowna, CANADA
Fair enough, Only with one person who is blinded by personal opinion so much it becomes frustrating not educational/beneficial for anyone to have a discussion on pros and cons for any subject. I guess I'm choosing to not '****' anymore.
Yep, it's all personal opinion, the 0-60 times, the 1/4 mile times, the skid pad numbers, the HP, the transmission problems, it's all my opinion and nothing more.
What transmission problems?? the transmission is just fine or are you talking about a possible tuning "problem", or because its not a 5 speed?
Evolving Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 261
Likes: 1
From: Kelowna, CANADA
I refuse to respond on open thread anymore this isnt fair to other readers. Check your pm. if you have a thing for me or anyone else pm them instead
Evolving Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 261
Likes: 1
From: Kelowna, CANADA
I think he is referring to the 'problem' that turned out to be an over zealous member posting which turned out to be a map sensor.
Edit: Here's the actual quote so you don't need to go fishing.
The SST transmission equipped MR Evo X has also allowed whp and tq gains over stock in limited quantities as the SST ECU torque protection limits the gains able to be achieved before the clutches lose traction.
Our suspicions were that the Lancer Ralliart (RA) would have similar torque protection and we have confirmed it in our testing thus far. The SST RA transmission will allow 30-45wtq gains before the clutch will slip as the ECU rejects torque over the limit allowed.
Our suspicions were that the Lancer Ralliart (RA) would have similar torque protection and we have confirmed it in our testing thus far. The SST RA transmission will allow 30-45wtq gains before the clutch will slip as the ECU rejects torque over the limit allowed.