TTP-Engineering Tunes the 2009 Ralliart 4b11

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Dec 12, 2008 | 07:30 PM
  #331  
There's a very good chance that getrag has a special deal cut with mitsu (like they did with the 3000gt TT) that they are (getrag) in control of their own trannys.. Maybe for the sake of debugging. Who knows.

But seeing that getrag designed the trans in-house (and probably not specifically for mitsubishi), means that mitsu has to work within the parameters that getrag determined was safe. So, since getrag specifies 350ft lbs, it's not in mitsu's hands to modify it for fq400 use. Even if it was possible, i'm sure getrag wouldn't be pleased. After all, they have dual clutch transmissions in their product lineup that can handle that kind of power. They don't want to steal sales from their more expensive products that are available to customers.

Until there is a service manual released, no one will know what it takes to "beef up" the TC-SST, unless someone pulls one apart in their garage
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Dec 12, 2008 | 07:36 PM
  #332  
Quote: There's a very good chance that getrag has a special deal cut with mitsu (like they did with the 3000gt TT) that they are (getrag) in control of their own trannys.. Maybe for the sake of debugging. Who knows.

But seeing that getrag designed the trans in-house (and probably not specifically for mitsubishi), means that mitsu has to work within the parameters that getrag determined was safe. So, since getrag specifies 350ft lbs, it's not in mitsu's hands to modify it for fq400 use. Even if it was possible, i'm sure getrag wouldn't be pleased. After all, they have dual clutch transmissions in their product lineup that can handle that kind of power. They don't want to steal sales from their more expensive products that are available to customers.

Until there is a service manual released, no one will know what it takes to "beef up" the TC-SST, unless someone pulls one apart in their garage

i think the same here. I'm sure though later /maybe not even too far from today/ there will be after market SST upgrade .
Like Cluch and maybe different TCU map or oil cooler etc.
But that will be expensive for sure. Also that is a 8k tranny so , it is a slipery road when you start modding the tranny.
And i trully bealive the ONLY limiting factor to being a tuner car is the SST.
As it stands today.
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Dec 12, 2008 | 07:37 PM
  #333  
At this moment there is nothing known really about the internal workings of the TC-SST, so to say its the weak link and to say the car is not made for modding is nonsense. But once the SST will be capable of big numbers I do believe all the GSR guys will be pissed with their decisions, haha. Fun to drive, precise, goes perfect with a turbocharged motor.
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Dec 12, 2008 | 07:40 PM
  #334  
Quote: At this moment there is nothing known really about the internal workings of the TC-SST, so to say its the weak link and to say the car is not made for modding is nonsense. But once the SST will be capable of big numbers I do believe all the GSR guys will be pissed with their decisions, haha. Fun to drive, precise, goes perfect with a turbocharged motor.
i think you se it wrong.
there is many facts to know how the SST works. The SST is not a new transmission. For the Mitsubishi yes , but not for Getrag.
The GSR guys will be not pissed for several reasons, but that is a different topic.
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Dec 12, 2008 | 07:42 PM
  #335  
The very nature of the TC-SST means it is a limitation, at least in the strictest sense of the term. I doubt we will ever see a TC-SST making the same power as the traditional 5-speeds. To say that nothing is known about how the internals work is a bit short sighted.
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Dec 12, 2008 | 07:42 PM
  #336  
Quote:
i think the same here. I'm sure though later /maybe not even too far from today/ there will be after market SST upgrade .
Like Cluch and maybe different TCU map or oil cooler etc.
But that will be expensive for sure. Also that is a 8k tranny so , it is a slipery road when you start modding the tranny.
And i trully bealive the ONLY limiting factor to being a tuner car is the SST.
As it stands today.


Agreed....

Then again, the MR isn't too shabby stock anyways. But, a little extra power wouldn't hurt my feelings... heh
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Dec 12, 2008 | 07:48 PM
  #337  
Quote: The very nature of the TC-SST means it is a limitation, at least in the strictest sense of the term. I doubt we will ever see a TC-SST making the same power as the traditional 5-speeds. To say that nothing is known about how the internals work is a bit short sighted.
I'm just saying from a tuning standpoint. Obviously we know the basics on how it works etc. But currently I havent seen any good concrete information regarding where the limitations stem from (clutch packs, hydraulic pressure, TCU, etc.)
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Dec 12, 2008 | 07:58 PM
  #338  
i emailed these guys http://www.importperformancetrans.com/ ipt trans. they said they modify the the sst transmission.i asked about the clutches,no response yet.
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Dec 12, 2008 | 08:47 PM
  #339  
Quote: i emailed these guys http://www.importperformancetrans.com/ ipt trans. they said they modify the the sst transmission.i asked about the clutches,no response yet.
Good find!
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Dec 12, 2008 | 11:47 PM
  #340  
It is possible to make a dual clutch transmission's gears, housing, and clutches just as strong as any in a manual. Since it does have more components (actuators, electronics) than a standard manual,for that reason technically it will be more failure prone (doesn't mean it will be often). The DSG in the Veyron seems to be holding up pretty well. Even major classes of auto racing are migrating towards dual clutches (but they'll still probably remain dog boxes).

We have to judge every dual clutch transmission models out there individually, just like we would for any other type of transmission. Right off the bat, the TC-SST is inherently stronger than many manuals out on the road.
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Dec 12, 2008 | 11:54 PM
  #341  
Quote: It is possible to make a dual clutch transmission's gears, housing, and clutches just as strong as any in a manual. Since it does have more components (actuators, electronics) than a standard manual,for that reason technically it will be more failure prone (doesn't mean it will be often). The DSG in the Veyron seems to be holding up pretty well. Even major classes of auto racing are migrating towards dual clutches (but they'll still probably remain dog boxes).

We have to judge every dual clutch transmission models out there individually, just like we would for any other type of transmission. Right off the bat, the TC-SST is inherently stronger than many manuals out on the road.
Sure you can, if you have a bottomless budget. The Veyron is a million dollar car with the transmission to match, for 99.9% of owners, it's not even remotely applicable. At the absolute cheapest I would guess that the Veyron transmission is worth more than the entire Ralliart, I wouldn't be shocked if it cost as much as some member's houses.
How is the TC-SST stronger than many manuals out there? I'm sure it's stronger than a lot of entry level cars like the Mazda3, the Dodge Caliber, the Honda Civic, etc. but that's hardly a fair comparison. If it's going into safe mode with a relatively small increase in power, I don't think you can really call it a strong transmission. That doesn't mean it's a bad transmission it just means it's not the best choice if you plan on modding heavily. If you're happy with a 37 WHP increase (which most people probably will be), it's perfectly fine.
Is it even possible to have a twin-clutch transmission that's also a dog box?
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Dec 13, 2008 | 12:44 AM
  #342  
Quote: Sure you can, if you have a bottomless budget. The Veyron is a million dollar car with the transmission to match, for 99.9% of owners, it's not even remotely applicable. At the absolute cheapest I would guess that the Veyron transmission is worth more than the entire Ralliart, I wouldn't be shocked if it cost as much as some member's houses.
How is the TC-SST stronger than many manuals out there? I'm sure it's stronger than a lot of entry level cars like the Mazda3, the Dodge Caliber, the Honda Civic, etc. but that's hardly a fair comparison. If it's going into safe mode with a relatively small increase in power, I don't think you can really call it a strong transmission. That doesn't mean it's a bad transmission it just means it's not the best choice if you plan on modding heavily. If you're happy with a 37 WHP increase (which most people probably will be), it's perfectly fine.
Is it even possible to have a twin-clutch transmission that's also a dog box?
To say the SST is not strong is not really fair....at least until proven. no one has broken one yet, at least not on this forum I've seen. Slipping yes, but software may help there. or when not if, upgrades become available. How strong is yet to be tested. As determined by Getrag a 350ft/lb limit is nothing to sneeze at for the typical RA buyer should this be attainable like the EVO MR.
As for the pricing on a Veryon tranny! everything about the car is custom hand built limited production pieces. It will be pricey by default of supply and demand not to mention the extra care, quality, and engineering. Mass produce it and suddenly it's not as pricey. SO does this mean that the Veyron Dual clutch is so superior it's not like anything else? certainly not, but maybe its not so far off a dual clutch used in many other high performance cars costing 90% less.
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Dec 13, 2008 | 01:26 AM
  #343  
Quote: Sure you can, if you have a bottomless budget. The Veyron is a million dollar car with the transmission to match, for 99.9% of owners, it's not even remotely applicable. At the absolute cheapest I would guess that the Veyron transmission is worth more than the entire Ralliart, I wouldn't be shocked if it cost as much as some member's houses.
How is the TC-SST stronger than many manuals out there? I'm sure it's stronger than a lot of entry level cars like the Mazda3, the Dodge Caliber, the Honda Civic, etc. but that's hardly a fair comparison. If it's going into safe mode with a relatively small increase in power, I don't think you can really call it a strong transmission. That doesn't mean it's a bad transmission it just means it's not the best choice if you plan on modding heavily. If you're happy with a 37 WHP increase (which most people probably will be), it's perfectly fine.
Is it even possible to have a twin-clutch transmission that's also a dog box?
Yeah, I was basically saying compared to something like a dodge caliber's trans, the tc-sst is strong. I wasn't trying to make it a fair comparison

Since everything is relative, we can say something ridiculous like "relative to a nuclear aircraft carrier's trans, the dsg in the Bugatti is weak." So, if the tc-sst not being able to support more than 350ft lbs off the factory line is considered weak, then it is. But lots of transmissions out there aren't able to handle that kind of power.
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Dec 13, 2008 | 06:33 AM
  #344  
Quote: It is possible to make a dual clutch transmission's gears, housing, and clutches just as strong as any in a manual. Since it does have more components (actuators, electronics) than a standard manual,for that reason technically it will be more failure prone (doesn't mean it will be often). The DSG in the Veyron seems to be holding up pretty well. Even major classes of auto racing are migrating towards dual clutches (but they'll still probably remain dog boxes).

We have to judge every dual clutch transmission models out there individually, just like we would for any other type of transmission. Right off the bat, the TC-SST is inherently stronger than many manuals out on the road.
I wouldnt see why it would not already be. It has fewer moving parts.
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Dec 13, 2008 | 07:29 AM
  #345  
If I remember correctly doesn't the Nissan GTR have a similar tranny like ours?
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