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how-to: ECU-based direct boost control

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Old Sep 2, 2009 | 08:02 AM
  #826  
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by shadow1
Did you pressure test? Did you find and fix your leaks? BTW the stock turbo will have taper. The best way I have seen to eliminate taper is an O2 dump. My car is tuned for 24 psi and I taper to 22 psi by 8k rpm. But I have a built head which contributes to taper. Despite my taper, my airflow increases all the way to redline. My point is that boost is not what makes power, airflow is what makes power. As long as airflow increases, you are good.
What should I be looking at to confirm increasing airflow to redline? MAF signal?

Originally Posted by Jack_of_Trades
I've never seen someone enter a value larger than 100% in their Base WGDC table.
Doesn't seem to make a difference since you can see that the WGDC is maxing at 100.

Is your local atmospheric pressure really 13.4 psi!??? If not, your BASE BOOST #1 table is gonna be off.
Sadly, yes it is. I live at 3200 feet and work at 2500 - so I split the difference

Usually with a boost leak I would suspect higher load values than he is getting,hmm.
I pressure tested after I replaced my leaky throttle body shaft seals and that eliminated most of the leak - I did notice air leaking out of the tube that connects the head cover to the intake. Also, there is a little hole in my Greddy RS BOV that leaks air like as well - I just plugged it for the pressure test.

My guess is the boost pill thingy isn't enough. GM BCS can't be beat.
I was afraid of that. I have a custom drilled #58 pill in there, but only in the line between the compressor outlet and the T. I don't have the OEM pill in the line between the T and the BCS (previous owner had no pills in the lines). Could that be making the difference?
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Old Sep 2, 2009 | 10:16 AM
  #827  
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From: Laurel, MD
If you are leaking out the valve cover vent, then replace your PCV valve. Under boost pressures, the PCV should be shut closed. The extra port on the Greddy BOV shouldn't leak. Your diaphragm has a tear in it. Airflow is logged via 2-byte airflow data - seach the ECUFlash forum.
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Old Sep 2, 2009 | 10:46 AM
  #828  
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From: Opelika,AL
Originally Posted by shadow1
If you are leaking out the valve cover vent, then replace your PCV valve. Under boost pressures, the PCV should be shut closed. The extra port on the Greddy BOV shouldn't leak. Your diaphragm has a tear in it. Airflow is logged via 2-byte airflow data - seach the ECUFlash forum.
+1, the only way air gets in the crankcase is one of 3 ways:
  • past the piston rings
  • past the valve guides
  • PCV valve not fully closing

The best way to combat the first two on the list is to make sure the engine is warmed up to normal operating temp before doing your boost leak test and to put your #1 cylinder at TDC.

If the BOV is leaking, the BOV is probably being forced open while boosting, creating your leak. At your boost levels I'm pretty sure you can use a stock MR BOV.
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Old Sep 2, 2009 | 11:06 AM
  #829  
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by Jack_of_Trades
The best way to combat the first two on the list is to make sure the engine is warmed up to normal operating temp before doing your boost leak test and to put your #1 cylinder at TDC.
What's the easiest way to put cylinder #1 to TDC? Removing the timing cover and rotating the cam gear?

If the BOV is leaking, the BOV is probably being forced open while boosting, creating your leak. At your boost levels I'm pretty sure you can use a stock MR BOV.
Unfortunately I don't the OEM BOV (bought the car used). I do have a 1g DSM BOV (uncrushed) - I could install that and see if that solves it.

Thanks all for the help so far. I've been tempted to just scrap the whole ECU boost control idea and install my MBC, but I'm giving up yet!
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Old Sep 2, 2009 | 11:33 AM
  #830  
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From: Laurel, MD
#1 cylinder at TDC makes no difference for pressure testing since if 2 of the cylinders are closed, the other 2 cylinders are open. Leakage past ring seals is a very very slow leak (unless your motor is shot and has no compression).
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Old Sep 2, 2009 | 11:35 AM
  #831  
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From: Opelika,AL
Originally Posted by Z_Lancer_Man
What's the easiest way to put cylinder #1 to TDC? Removing the timing cover and rotating the cam gear?
I usually pull the timing cover and turn the crankshaft clockwise with a 1/2" ratchet with extension (I make sure the car is in neutral with the e-brake on so I'm not getting resistance from the tranny) until the crank pulley is lined up at TDC with the timing mark on the lower cover. Then I confirm the cam gear timing marks are correct to be sure its at TDC.

Originally Posted by Z_Lancer_Man
Unfortunately I don't the OEM BOV (bought the car used). I do have a 1g DSM BOV (uncrushed) - I could install that and see if that solves it.
An uncrushed 1G BOV should be able to hold that much boost, if not, it will only require SLIGHTTTT crushing to do so. Do you have an aftermarket UICP with a flange on it for the greddy BOV now?

If you REALLY want to take advantage of the ECU controlled boost, step up to a reputable 3 port BCS and you'll be much happier overall.
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Old Sep 2, 2009 | 11:45 AM
  #832  
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by shadow1
#1 cylinder at TDC makes no difference for pressure testing since if 2 of the cylinders are closed, the other 2 cylinders are open. Leakage past ring seals is a very very slow leak (unless your motor is shot and has no compression).
This makes more sense to me - you can't close them all so why close any (at least on purpose).

Originally Posted by Jack_of_Trades
An uncrushed 1G BOV should be able to hold that much boost, if not, it will only require SLIGHTTTT crushing to do so. Do you have an aftermarket UICP with a flange on it for the greddy BOV now?
I do have an AMS short path upper IC pipe, but it's flanged for the OEM bov - so to use the GReddy, I just installed the recirc attachment. I also have the recirc attachment for the 1G, so I can very easily sway the two BOVs.

Originally Posted by Jack_of_Trades
If you REALLY want to take advantage of the ECU controlled boost, step up to a reputable 3 port BCS and you'll be much happier overall.
I was hoping that I could stick with the OEM BCS based on the fact that I'm only aiming for 24 PSI on 91. I suppose it could be a good investment though... what's the cheapest source of these?
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Old Sep 2, 2009 | 11:49 AM
  #833  
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From: Opelika,AL
Originally Posted by shadow1
#1 cylinder at TDC makes no difference for pressure testing since if 2 of the cylinders are closed, the other 2 cylinders are open. Leakage past ring seals is a very very slow leak (unless your motor is shot and has no compression).
Having the engine at TDC ensures that either the INTAKE or EXHAUST valves are as close to being closed as possible to minimize the air path towards the exhaust system. And a cold engine WILL have significant blow-by past the rings. I've done hundereds of boost leak tests and trust me, have the engine warm. WHy chase phantom 'hisses' when u don't have to? Plus, I prefer to not hear my compressor turn on twice as often as it needs to when searching for leaks. Every bit helps.
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 09:13 AM
  #834  
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Since I didn't have a whole lot of time yesterday to experiment, I just simply replaced the GReddy BOV with my 1G as suggested. Here is the result!



I'll post my log up here in a bit - finally I'm getting somewhere! This weekend I'll look into replacing my PCV valve and see if that helps even further. Thanks all for the help! I actually hit my boost-load limit, so I now it's time to tweak

EDIT: Added Datalog

Could someone help explain to me why my WGDC Correction falls off like? I was under the impression that WGDCCorr was only affected by the BEC table, which I currently have zeroed out. Am I missing something?


Last edited by Z_Lancer_Man; Sep 3, 2009 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Added datalog
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 09:21 AM
  #835  
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From: Laurel, MD
So it was a leak then. If you open up the Greddy BOV, I bet you will see a tear in the rubber diaphragm.
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 09:29 AM
  #836  
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From: Trinidad
lol my stock BOV was leaking @ 10 psi. hopefully, i will see some more power, i got a HKS BOV in there, car pulls stronger but still untuned
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 09:36 AM
  #837  
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by shadow1
So it was a leak then. If you open up the Greddy BOV, I bet you will see a tear in the rubber diaphragm.
Yeah, I plan to crack it open this weekend and see what damage is in there. I can't believe they want $80 for a replacement piece of rubber!
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 07:50 PM
  #838  
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Well, the prognosis was correct. The rubber diaphragm of the GReddy was torn a little and folded down on a side, not sealing. Thanks for the help!
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 08:40 PM
  #839  
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From: Opelika,AL
Originally Posted by Z_Lancer_Man

Could someone help explain to me why my WGDC Correction falls off like?
Not sure but I noticed your scaling only goes to 7000 RPM, same place that the WGDC correction falls off. Plus, you have the % over 100%. I highly doubt that either should be an issue but its the first thing I noticed. Not sure why its correcting if the table is zero'd out.
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 08:44 PM
  #840  
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From: Hayward
But it's not correcting as his WGDC is still at 100 even though WGDCC is at -25+ and doesn't follow what boost error is reporting.

Sure you are logging the correct item?
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