MAP EF-series Turbochargers results thread
You could probably run 29-30 psi with 94. The FP/EF turbos run well at 28 psi on 93 oct
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Athens
Any news from your car John????
just ready 35 pages and I'm still on the fence for stock block turbo - EF3 or EF4?
The pricing difference is $40 between the two so it makes it really tough to decide. I kinda like the idea of more lag with the EF4 on the stock block because it should flow better up top. I want a turbo that kicks in and just keeps pulling to redline. I hate the stock turbo kick of TQ then it just dies off and gets worse to redline.
my plans for the car (most parts are already ordered):
JDL tubular manifold
JDL o2 dump
FIC 1450's
Walbro 255
ETS 3.5" Intercooler
STM Piping
Greddy Ti-C exhaust
MAP ported intake manifold
Ported TB (maybe)
COP
Tial Q
Intake (3" or 4")
I wanted to make really good power on the stock cams with 93 so that I can enjoy the car after spending this amount of money on it, but I also wanted a turbo that leaves options later. I wanted around 450whp at this level for a fun street car
I will eventually get 272 cams and springs, then do a re-tune for more power, but I want to keep this as a reserve for if I get bored with the power and I want more...
I would also like to leave the option open for E85 by getting a double-pumper and keeping my injectors... If I went E85 I would want to see 500+hp but on stock block this might be risky.
I only drive the car when the weather is nice and I want a car that is fun on the highway at speed. I would like to get to the track one day but I don't know if I ever will because the only track is 45mins away and that would suck to break something that far from home.
The pricing difference is $40 between the two so it makes it really tough to decide. I kinda like the idea of more lag with the EF4 on the stock block because it should flow better up top. I want a turbo that kicks in and just keeps pulling to redline. I hate the stock turbo kick of TQ then it just dies off and gets worse to redline.
my plans for the car (most parts are already ordered):
JDL tubular manifold
JDL o2 dump
FIC 1450's
Walbro 255
ETS 3.5" Intercooler
STM Piping
Greddy Ti-C exhaust
MAP ported intake manifold
Ported TB (maybe)
COP
Tial Q
Intake (3" or 4")
I wanted to make really good power on the stock cams with 93 so that I can enjoy the car after spending this amount of money on it, but I also wanted a turbo that leaves options later. I wanted around 450whp at this level for a fun street car
I will eventually get 272 cams and springs, then do a re-tune for more power, but I want to keep this as a reserve for if I get bored with the power and I want more...
I would also like to leave the option open for E85 by getting a double-pumper and keeping my injectors... If I went E85 I would want to see 500+hp but on stock block this might be risky.
I only drive the car when the weather is nice and I want a car that is fun on the highway at speed. I would like to get to the track one day but I don't know if I ever will because the only track is 45mins away and that would suck to break something that far from home.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: greece
Hi everyone! my car is ready and im very very happy
http://www.maperformance.com/custome...-john-antipas/
seems like more lag is better on stock blocks... All these stock blocks are running bigger turbos such as 6262, 6266, HTA 3582, etc.. and making great power because the power curve is pushed to the right (as opposed to say a FP green at 450hp which would go boom)
The idea behind a bigger turbo is you run a lot lower torque but that torque can be sustained into higher rpms and if you have a flat torque curve throughout the band HP only goes up.
I'd rather have a smaller stock frame with a meaty powerband at a reasonable level than a lag monster and no powerband just so you can say on the internet you have XXXwhp.
Just my two cents. I think people really need to size their turbo to their needs and goals. Just because you "might" upgrade or build the motor in the future doesn't mean you should run the EF4 now.
Run the EF2 or EF3 and enjoy a fat powerband and then when you build you can upgrade for a few hundred bucks.
With a stock block he won't be able to take advantage the higher airflow of the EF4 by revving out the engine. He may as well just get the EF3 and tune in slower spool (which would be silly) so he could at least keep the responsiveness of the smaller turbo for DD use.
Torque is the enemy of stock rods, not horsepower.
The idea behind a bigger turbo is you run a lot lower torque but that torque can be sustained into higher rpms and if you have a flat torque curve throughout the band HP only goes up.
I'd rather have a smaller stock frame with a meaty powerband at a reasonable level than a lag monster and no powerband just so you can say on the internet you have XXXwhp.
Just my two cents. I think people really need to size their turbo to their needs and goals. Just because you "might" upgrade or build the motor in the future doesn't mean you should run the EF4 now.
Run the EF2 or EF3 and enjoy a fat powerband and then when you build you can upgrade for a few hundred bucks.
The idea behind a bigger turbo is you run a lot lower torque but that torque can be sustained into higher rpms and if you have a flat torque curve throughout the band HP only goes up.
I'd rather have a smaller stock frame with a meaty powerband at a reasonable level than a lag monster and no powerband just so you can say on the internet you have XXXwhp.
Just my two cents. I think people really need to size their turbo to their needs and goals. Just because you "might" upgrade or build the motor in the future doesn't mean you should run the EF4 now.
Run the EF2 or EF3 and enjoy a fat powerband and then when you build you can upgrade for a few hundred bucks.
well I've committed to stock-frame because of the $1250 manifold and o2 dump I just bought, so I guess I'll get an EF3. I think Tom can keep the torque manageable for my stock block because he does it so often and if I ever build the motor I can go from EF3-EF4 fairly easy from what I've read. 450whp will probably be a blast on the street anyways and I'm not shooting for huge numbers, just something respectable but I also want a vehicle that makes use of that power. Saying you have 600hp on the stock block is fun and everything, but if you get beat by a 450hp car with a better powerband, that's just embarrassing...
thanks for the response guys, I'll stick with the EF3. I hope MAP has a decent holiday sale so I can pick up the laundry list of parts I plan on getting
thanks for the response guys, I'll stick with the EF3. I hope MAP has a decent holiday sale so I can pick up the laundry list of parts I plan on getting
Torque is the enemy of stock rods, not horsepower.
The idea behind a bigger turbo is you run a lot lower torque but that torque can be sustained into higher rpms and if you have a flat torque curve throughout the band HP only goes up.
I'd rather have a smaller stock frame with a meaty powerband at a reasonable level than a lag monster and no powerband just so you can say on the internet you have XXXwhp.
Just my two cents. I think people really need to size their turbo to their needs and goals. Just because you "might" upgrade or build the motor in the future doesn't mean you should run the EF4 now.
Run the EF2 or EF3 and enjoy a fat powerband and then when you build you can upgrade for a few hundred bucks.
The idea behind a bigger turbo is you run a lot lower torque but that torque can be sustained into higher rpms and if you have a flat torque curve throughout the band HP only goes up.
I'd rather have a smaller stock frame with a meaty powerband at a reasonable level than a lag monster and no powerband just so you can say on the internet you have XXXwhp.
Just my two cents. I think people really need to size their turbo to their needs and goals. Just because you "might" upgrade or build the motor in the future doesn't mean you should run the EF4 now.
Run the EF2 or EF3 and enjoy a fat powerband and then when you build you can upgrade for a few hundred bucks.
400wtq is 400wtq...the rods don't know the difference. If you have a bigger turbo you are likely sustaining that torque longer, so if anything your bigger turbo is more dangerous.
The typical reason for bigger turbos lasting longer are two fold in my opinion and its all driving style, not tuning or mechanical. On a smaller turbo, you will be beating on the car much more often. Meaning, just passing people you can spool it up and you will be hitting your peak torque much more often. The big turbo you have to be much more deliberate in hitting peak torque and going WOT. With a 500whp+ car there isn't a lot of safe opportunities that people actually beat on the car.
So basically, with a smaller stock frame pushing the limits you are at those limits for WAY more time vs a big laggy turbo where you do a few pulls a week or something. Not to say guys with big turbos don't beat on their cars too because they do, but its foolish to think they do it nearly as much as FPgreen style ones.
When I had my stock turbo I banged through gears and redlined **** daily, multiple multiple times, like every stop light style. Now that I have a bigger turbo I rarely do it, its so fast its just not safe or practical to do it unless I really want to.
The typical reason for bigger turbos lasting longer are two fold in my opinion and its all driving style, not tuning or mechanical. On a smaller turbo, you will be beating on the car much more often. Meaning, just passing people you can spool it up and you will be hitting your peak torque much more often. The big turbo you have to be much more deliberate in hitting peak torque and going WOT. With a 500whp+ car there isn't a lot of safe opportunities that people actually beat on the car.
So basically, with a smaller stock frame pushing the limits you are at those limits for WAY more time vs a big laggy turbo where you do a few pulls a week or something. Not to say guys with big turbos don't beat on their cars too because they do, but its foolish to think they do it nearly as much as FPgreen style ones.
When I had my stock turbo I banged through gears and redlined **** daily, multiple multiple times, like every stop light style. Now that I have a bigger turbo I rarely do it, its so fast its just not safe or practical to do it unless I really want to.
400wtq is 400wtq...the rods don't know the difference. If you have a bigger turbo you are likely sustaining that torque longer, so if anything your bigger turbo is more dangerous.
The typical reason for bigger turbos lasting longer are two fold in my opinion and its all driving style, not tuning or mechanical. On a smaller turbo, you will be beating on the car much more often. Meaning, just passing people you can spool it up and you will be hitting your peak torque much more often. The big turbo you have to be much more deliberate in hitting peak torque and going WOT. With a 500whp+ car there isn't a lot of safe opportunities that people actually beat on the car.
So basically, with a smaller stock frame pushing the limits you are at those limits for WAY more time vs a big laggy turbo where you do a few pulls a week or something. Not to say guys with big turbos don't beat on their cars too because they do, but its foolish to think they do it nearly as much as FPgreen style ones.
When I had my stock turbo I banged through gears and redlined **** daily, multiple multiple times, like every stop light style. Now that I have a bigger turbo I rarely do it, its so fast its just not safe or practical to do it unless I really want to.
The typical reason for bigger turbos lasting longer are two fold in my opinion and its all driving style, not tuning or mechanical. On a smaller turbo, you will be beating on the car much more often. Meaning, just passing people you can spool it up and you will be hitting your peak torque much more often. The big turbo you have to be much more deliberate in hitting peak torque and going WOT. With a 500whp+ car there isn't a lot of safe opportunities that people actually beat on the car.
So basically, with a smaller stock frame pushing the limits you are at those limits for WAY more time vs a big laggy turbo where you do a few pulls a week or something. Not to say guys with big turbos don't beat on their cars too because they do, but its foolish to think they do it nearly as much as FPgreen style ones.
When I had my stock turbo I banged through gears and redlined **** daily, multiple multiple times, like every stop light style. Now that I have a bigger turbo I rarely do it, its so fast its just not safe or practical to do it unless I really want to.