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This is about hardware management and the utilization of all available octane to combust not quell a superhot overworked turbo charge. The 16 g isnt your answer its a great turbo but it does what it does.
Execelent points David. I like the way you are reasoning here.Originally Posted by David@Vishnu
Stock turbos are out of their efficiency range at redline even at 20 PSI. That is a case of not enough effective octane to quell the effects of a very hot inefficient charge. As well as plainly and simply too small of turbo for what you want to do. The system and tuner makes what it can make with the hardware/octane/environment it has to work with. You mention a 50 trim that is a way bigger turbo with a later onset of boost and a denser CFM per PSI. The limit here is octane only. There simply isnt enough at some point. The "perfect" pumpgas turbo is one that still has reserves of cool air to create the charge dense enough to utilize the available octane while being in the efficiency zone. Even so there may only be enough octane to support say 15PSI at redline even though that turbo could "Hold" 35 PSI there.This is about hardware management and the utilization of all available octane to combust not quell a superhot overworked turbo charge. The 16 g isnt your answer its a great turbo but it does what it does.
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Execellent points David. I like the way you are reasoning here.
I vote for a David and Al love-in. We could sale a bunch of tickets to that! 
BTW, for those wanting direct comparisons, Tony's dyno is in this thread 2 or 3 times after page 50 or so. Again, it shows almost 30 peak hp over stock, increasing to about 50 hp at readline. This was with a boost leak after the WR install and all other things the same IIRC.
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But, with some sort of alky/meth/water injection cooling the intake temps A LOT the knock is suppressed because the heat coming from the turbo is combated by the injection....right?
Thats part of the reason(other being a lot of octane) that these alky/meth kits net so much power and torque with pump fuel....because of the COOLING effect. Right? I mean, c16 suppresses knock with the gobs of octane, but you turbo is still inefficient at 7500rpms blowing more than 20psi so its hot as hell.....meth combats both the heat and low octane.
Am i on the right page here Dave and Al?
Thats part of the reason(other being a lot of octane) that these alky/meth kits net so much power and torque with pump fuel....because of the COOLING effect. Right? I mean, c16 suppresses knock with the gobs of octane, but you turbo is still inefficient at 7500rpms blowing more than 20psi so its hot as hell.....meth combats both the heat and low octane.
Am i on the right page here Dave and Al?
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This is about hardware management and the utilization of all available octane to combust not quell a superhot overworked turbo charge. The 16 g isnt your answer its a great turbo but it does what it does.
Good info. I used the 50 trim for a comparo because I thought that turbo flows somewhere in the neighborhood of 700cfm (WR is suppose to flow around there). Originally Posted by David@Vishnu
Stock turbos are out of their efficiency range at redline even at 20 PSI. That is a case of not enough effective octane to quell the effects of a very hot inefficient charge. As well as plainly and simply too small of turbo for what you want to do. The system and tuner makes what it can make with the hardware/octane/environment it has to work with. You mention a 50 trim that is a way bigger turbo with a later onset of boost and a denser CFM per PSI. The limit here is octane only. There simply isnt enough at some point. The "perfect" pumpgas turbo is one that still has reserves of cool air to create the charge dense enough to utilize the available octane while being in the efficiency zone. Even so there may only be enough octane to support say 15PSI at redline even though that turbo could "Hold" 35 PSI there.This is about hardware management and the utilization of all available octane to combust not quell a superhot overworked turbo charge. The 16 g isnt your answer its a great turbo but it does what it does.
I am in fact in search of a great pump-gas turbo. However, something that has all this cold air in reserve is usually something like the size of a GT35R and that spool is undesirable for me. The stock turbo IMO is great, Im probably around 350whp now, but Id like 400awhp on 93 and the stock turbo isnt going to do that. (BTW I dont want alcohol injection).
The thing that sucks is that this turbo is my only real hope for good power out of this car. I cant afford nor do I want a 3500-5000 turbo kit with a GT35R, and all the other turbos seem to be a waste of time (3071, 3076). So its either stock turbo or WR. I just hope it puts out some good numbers - I just got my shipping notification from Forced Performance, so I guess it will come this week.
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I am in fact in search of a great pump-gas turbo. However, something that has all this cold air in reserve is usually something like the size of a GT35R and that spool is undesirable for me. The stock turbo IMO is great, Im probably around 350whp now, but Id like 400awhp on 93 and the stock turbo isnt going to do that. (BTW I dont want alcohol injection).
The thing that sucks is that this turbo is my only real hope for good power out of this car. I cant afford nor do I want a 3500-5000 turbo kit with a GT35R, and all the other turbos seem to be a waste of time (3071, 3076). So its either stock turbo or WR. I just hope it puts out some good numbers - I just got my shipping notification from Forced Performance, so I guess it will come this week.
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
Good info. I used the 50 trim for a comparo because I thought that turbo flows somewhere in the neighborhood of 700cfm (WR is suppose to flow around there). I am in fact in search of a great pump-gas turbo. However, something that has all this cold air in reserve is usually something like the size of a GT35R and that spool is undesirable for me. The stock turbo IMO is great, Im probably around 350whp now, but Id like 400awhp on 93 and the stock turbo isnt going to do that. (BTW I dont want alcohol injection).
The thing that sucks is that this turbo is my only real hope for good power out of this car. I cant afford nor do I want a 3500-5000 turbo kit with a GT35R, and all the other turbos seem to be a waste of time (3071, 3076). So its either stock turbo or WR. I just hope it puts out some good numbers - I just got my shipping notification from Forced Performance, so I guess it will come this week.
i am in the same situation as you, except i will be using alky. i agree that the 3071 is a waste but the 3076 is pretty nice if you use alky, on pump alone you will only get 420-430whp. on alky i would think 500whp or so is possible. the gt35r is in a category of its own since race gas seems to be the only reason to get it. sure it will be nice 25psi-28psi, but 30-35 is its prime, so it would seem kind of pointless to get a turbo with this potential to only run pump gas or pump gas and alky. i was thinking about a WR too, but thats only a small increase in power compared to the stock turbo, which is why i went with the 3076 (i am not trying to be biased because i purchased this turbo).
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IMO the 3076 is the perfect all around turbo....you don't lose much driveability in the twisties of the road course, but yet can easily run low 11s at the strip.
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More boost= more stress on the engine component. Simple and no one can argue that. The less boost that you can have on your car with the more power is what everyone should look for. Of course if the tune is perfect you can boost to 23 and 24 psi on pump but you are still pushing things to the limit on pump gas. We should be looking for the least boost and the most power. At this point I would rather boost 19 psi and loose 15 WHP than boosting 23psi. Running safe and smooth is better than running sorry. SMOOTH is the key you don’t want the erratic boost hit.
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Originally Posted by gsujeff55
IMO the 3076 is the perfect all around turbo....you don't lose much driveability in the twisties of the road course, but yet can easily run low 11s at the strip.
Have you been at the road course with 3076? I wonder on what you are basing your opinion? I have over 700 miles of racing on the track and I can come up with 100 problems (just on top of my head) with a larger turbo than stocker. Please layout some facts here.
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The 3076 I rode in had the same lag as the 35R (in the same car btw) and gave up a bunch on the top end. There may be some running low 11s, but we couldn't find any. We also had trouble finding a tuner that would recommend one (at least someone not selling them). See Al's comments in this thread and Dave Buschur's in his group buy thread. Others have voiced similar opions, just not on the forums.Originally Posted by gsujeff55
IMO the 3076 is the perfect all around turbo....you don't lose much driveability in the twisties of the road course, but yet can easily run low 11s at the strip.
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Originally Posted by robertrinaustin
The 3076 I rode in had the same lag as the 35R (in the same car btw) and gave up a bunch on the top end. There may be some running low 11s, but we couldn't find any. We also had trouble finding a tuner that would recommend one (at least someone not selling them). See Al's comments in this thread and Dave Buschur's in his group buy thread. Others have voiced similar opions, just not on the forums.
is this still true on pump gas or pump gas and alky? not everyone wants to run race gas, so a comparison at the same boost level and either pump gas or pump gas and alky would be best.
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^^ +1 - the 3076 is a poor compromise, IMO. Loses to the 3071 on pump and loses to the gt35r on racegas or alky. Originally Posted by robertrinaustin
The 3076 I rode in had the same lag as the 35R (in the same car btw) and gave up a bunch on the top end. There may be some running low 11s, but we couldn't find any. We also had trouble finding a tuner that would recommend one (at least someone not selling them). See Al's comments in this thread and Dave Buschur's in his group buy thread. Others have voiced similar opions, just not on the forums.
l8r)
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Thats part of the reason(other being a lot of octane) that these alky/meth kits net so much power and torque with pump fuel....because of the COOLING effect. Right? I mean, c16 suppresses knock with the gobs of octane, but you turbo is still inefficient at 7500rpms blowing more than 20psi so its hot as hell.....meth combats both the heat and low octane.
Am i on the right page here Dave and Al?
Correct. Same reason why John Shephard went 177 mph in the 1/4 mile this weekend without an intercooler on his car.Originally Posted by gsujeff55
But, with some sort of alky/meth/water injection cooling the intake temps A LOT the knock is suppressed because the heat coming from the turbo is combated by the injection....right?Thats part of the reason(other being a lot of octane) that these alky/meth kits net so much power and torque with pump fuel....because of the COOLING effect. Right? I mean, c16 suppresses knock with the gobs of octane, but you turbo is still inefficient at 7500rpms blowing more than 20psi so its hot as hell.....meth combats both the heat and low octane.
Am i on the right page here Dave and Al?
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l8r)
AgreedOriginally Posted by Ludikraut
^^ +1 - the 3076 is a poor compromise, IMO. Loses to the 3071 on pump and loses to the gt35r on racegas or alky. l8r)
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Pump gas, more boost on the 3076 (22-23 psi and 20-21 on the 35R). The 35R had about 40 more hp and spooled the same. The tuner also said it was much easier to tune the 35R.Originally Posted by TwStDeVo
is this still true on pump gas or pump gas and alky? not everyone wants to run race gas, so a comparison at the same boost level and either pump gas or pump gas and alky would be best.
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How did it spool the same? What 3076 was being tested, the ATP?
Az3ar, i never said the 3076 was better than the stock turbo for a road course set up, but the 35r is a dog(drove one and ridden in 2) around the road course. A turbo that big is nearly impossible to drive smoothly entering and exiting turns.(i was also with pro drivers who agreed).
How does the 3076 lose to the 3071 on pump fuel? Az3ar has commented along with others on how bad his turbo sucks....and most people going with the AMS gt30 are going 3076, not 3071.
Someone give me some hard facts here
Az3ar, i never said the 3076 was better than the stock turbo for a road course set up, but the 35r is a dog(drove one and ridden in 2) around the road course. A turbo that big is nearly impossible to drive smoothly entering and exiting turns.(i was also with pro drivers who agreed).
How does the 3076 lose to the 3071 on pump fuel? Az3ar has commented along with others on how bad his turbo sucks....and most people going with the AMS gt30 are going 3076, not 3071.
Someone give me some hard facts here