20G-9 from buschur.
Originally Posted by anjapower
so the wheel in the 20g-9 isn't really a 20g wheel after all? Is it the original 16g WR wheel?
-Paul
So now I have ask: Has this newer WR wheel been tested in the evo8 compressor housing and does it surge? The old WR didn't, and my understanding was the only reason for the larger compressor was because the 6 blade surged badly.
this would save us evo8 guys some $$.
this would save us evo8 guys some $$.
yes it would
Originally Posted by 95GSXtoEVO8
So now I have ask: Has this newer WR wheel been tested in the evo8 compressor housing and does it surge? The old WR didn't, and my understanding was the only reason for the larger compressor was because the 6 blade surged badly.
this would save us evo8 guys some $$.
this would save us evo8 guys some $$.
Originally Posted by anjapower
so the wheel in the 20g-9 isn't really a 20g wheel after all? Is it the original 16g WR wheel?
Originally Posted by swordfish
Thank God Robert is now responsible for the turbos.... I would have to kill myself if I bought something that had anything to do with turbochargers.con
jeff
jeff
This is David on Nick's computer. Sharing computers suck.
The WR wheel is larger than the stock EVO8 or EVO9 wheels. It is not and never has been a 16g wheel. It is slightly smaller than the 20G wheel we had made and YES there is actually a reversed rotation 20G wheel that we made and it is out there in many turbos. As was said, please re-read what I wrote. The part that shocked me was the 5 blade 20g wheel even though it was slightly smaller still flowed the same as the larger Mitsubishi style 20G wheel. First thing I did when Robert sent the turbo here was take it apart and measure and compare the two.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The WR wheel is larger than the stock EVO8 or EVO9 wheels. It is not and never has been a 16g wheel. It is slightly smaller than the 20G wheel we had made and YES there is actually a reversed rotation 20G wheel that we made and it is out there in many turbos. As was said, please re-read what I wrote. The part that shocked me was the 5 blade 20g wheel even though it was slightly smaller still flowed the same as the larger Mitsubishi style 20G wheel. First thing I did when Robert sent the turbo here was take it apart and measure and compare the two.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
how much smaller? looks like my 20g-9-5 has a taper on the intake and is polished, and the 20g-9 doesnt. am i right?
Originally Posted by Nick@Buschurs
This is David on Nick's computer. Sharing computers suck.
The WR wheel is larger than the stock EVO8 or EVO9 wheels. It is not and never has been a 16g wheel. It is slightly smaller than the 20G wheel we had made and YES there is actually a reversed rotation 20G wheel that we made and it is out there in many turbos. As was said, please re-read what I wrote. The part that shocked me was the 5 blade 20g wheel even though it was slightly smaller still flowed the same as the larger Mitsubishi style 20G wheel. First thing I did when Robert sent the turbo here was take it apart and measure and compare the two.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The WR wheel is larger than the stock EVO8 or EVO9 wheels. It is not and never has been a 16g wheel. It is slightly smaller than the 20G wheel we had made and YES there is actually a reversed rotation 20G wheel that we made and it is out there in many turbos. As was said, please re-read what I wrote. The part that shocked me was the 5 blade 20g wheel even though it was slightly smaller still flowed the same as the larger Mitsubishi style 20G wheel. First thing I did when Robert sent the turbo here was take it apart and measure and compare the two.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
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Oh my! Alot of damage control in this thread. White Rabbit = 20 g-9. I feel sorry for the people that were not happy with the White rabbit and opted to get a 20 g-9. I would be pissed. Seems that the power is similar from both turbos, so what Dave articulates makes sense.
Just to reiterate again (this is the Internet after all) my questions were never to call into question Buschur's integrity. In fact, I don't think I ever did that. It was only to get clarification and Dave has provided that. Hell, if the turbos flow the same, who the hell cares.
Now a technical question for DB (or RObert Fuller). Is there a major difference between the WR compressor wheel and the 20G 9-5? The reason I ask is because you may have a lot of WR owners wanting to upgrade. Is it just a simple upgrade, or is the 20G 9-5 a totally different turbo? Thanks.
Now a technical question for DB (or RObert Fuller). Is there a major difference between the WR compressor wheel and the 20G 9-5? The reason I ask is because you may have a lot of WR owners wanting to upgrade. Is it just a simple upgrade, or is the 20G 9-5 a totally different turbo? Thanks.
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Alright, this is a very long story but most importantly the story is the truth and NOBODY has been ripped off or misled. Get a glass of something to drink, this is a long one
First things first. Months ago when I was still trying to get a 20G wheel built FP beat me to the punch and decided to team up with SPI and sell a WR exclusively through them. All of you will remember this and all the fighting and such that went on. I remember and someone can find the quote if you are motivated saying that Robert at FP builds some kick butt turbos and if he built it I am sure the WR would work. I even said I would like to sell the turbos back then but the deal was already made with SPI and I was not able to do that.
Fast forward a month or two. We finally get our 20G wheels and start building turbos. The EVO8 turbo is used and there is surging problems but they do make damn good power.
Pictures of the EVO9 turbo are released by Mitsubishi, I see them and know this is going to be the solution to the surging. No turbos available............finally Mitsubishi gets ONE in country and it is in California. I buy it for some outrageous price (about $1800) and have it overnighted here then to Texas Rebuild. They install the 20G wheel. I test it, the turbo is so smooth, no surging and the car makes great power on race gas when I tested it. I released this information and the phones go nuts. We get quite a few orders for this turbo.
Weeks go by and there are no EVO9 turbos. Finally I get in contact with Robert at FP and ask if he has some. He doesn't want to sell to me at first as he wants to have them on hand. Finally we reach an agreement and I buy 8-10 (don't remember exactly how many I got) EVO9 turbos from him and have him drop ship them to Texas Rebuild. They build them into 20g-9's. I fill the first 8-10 orders with these turbos. Texas tells me it is going to be another 6-8 weeks for his turbos to come in and Robert is now out of turbos.
Robert contacts me and says he was smart enough to pre-order these EVO9 turbos a long time ago and will have more coming in. Unlucky for me Texas didn't do the same thing. He then asks me if I would test a SPECIAL version of the white rabbit if he sent one, it was a very very long conversation. I am very loyal guy. I do not like to switch suppliers and will buy at higher prices at times to stick with someone I have grown to trust, Texas Rebuild is such a company. Robert and I hadn't done much business together and with the entire WR deal and SPI and me not being able to buy them and him feeling at times that I was attacking him we were both very cautious. The actual agreement was this, "Send me a turbo, I will test it and if it works I will report to you that it does and then I will post the results of it. If it doesn't work I will keep my mouth shut completely and simply return it to you." I got the turbo and put it on my car. This testing took me 2-3 days of back to back to back swapping of the two turbos to determine the differences and such. In the end the bottom line was the turbos were the same. At first the was a difference in spool up that I couldn't pin point and that was the reason for swapping back and forth. The AFR mixtures stayed exactly the same telling me the flow was the same. The spool up was in the actuator for those of you wondering.
I called Robert and it was a huge burden for me to decide what to do from there. Robert and I both talked for hours over the next few days and spent even more time back and forth on AIM.
Robert had EVO9 turbos. Texas did not and still doesn't. We debated on changing the name of the turbo to something else as the WR got such a bad mouthing the first time around. Then after much discussion it came down to the fact that the turbo performed exactly as our 20g-9 did. Making up another name in our minds was useless. It would cause nothing but more confusion and mess. One thing the EVO world did not need was yet another turbo to confuse things.
I have to say again so you all understand. This modified WR turbo was built special for us to test. I had only seen or tested on other WR, this was Ivan's and his car did well on the dyno too. The main point is the dyno results were identical from these two different compressor wheels.
Now what I, Robert and Texas decided to do was just keep calling both turbos a 20g as the results, spool up and such were the same. There was no need to change and just confuse the EVO world further.
Also, Robert at FP will NOT build this same turbo for anyone else. What has been done to the turbo to make it work like our 20g is exclusive to our shop and can only be bought through us.
Had the turbo outperformed our 20g wheel in any aspect it would have been very easy for us to call it something else like the "Green Tornado" and tried to pass it off and sell it for yet another product that would have created a large amount of interest. This would have easily created new sales from more guys that wanted something new. This isn't how I operate.
As it stands today Texas still has no EVO9 turbos to build so the turbos that we are using now are the ones built for us from FP.
We, myself, Robert and Texas, knew there was going to be a time when this came up and it has made me uncomfortable from the beginning. I wanted to make sure when it did everyone got the entire story which is what I just gave. I do not feel this was dishonest and hope nobody else looks at it this way. As I said already, if the performance was different we would have changed the names or something. Maybe the way the WR was originally built there would have been a difference but with one we are running/selling there is none. You can be confident that no matter which one you have you will be getting the same spool up and performance from it.
With that, we like the turbos so much that 3 of us have these turbos on our own cars here. Myself, my brother and Trent. I would have to physically pull the inlet off of each car to figure out who had which one as I don't know, it doesn't matter as they are the same.
Here at the shop we have been referring to the turbo from FP as the 20g-9-5. The 5 being for the 5 blade design.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
First things first. Months ago when I was still trying to get a 20G wheel built FP beat me to the punch and decided to team up with SPI and sell a WR exclusively through them. All of you will remember this and all the fighting and such that went on. I remember and someone can find the quote if you are motivated saying that Robert at FP builds some kick butt turbos and if he built it I am sure the WR would work. I even said I would like to sell the turbos back then but the deal was already made with SPI and I was not able to do that.
Fast forward a month or two. We finally get our 20G wheels and start building turbos. The EVO8 turbo is used and there is surging problems but they do make damn good power.
Pictures of the EVO9 turbo are released by Mitsubishi, I see them and know this is going to be the solution to the surging. No turbos available............finally Mitsubishi gets ONE in country and it is in California. I buy it for some outrageous price (about $1800) and have it overnighted here then to Texas Rebuild. They install the 20G wheel. I test it, the turbo is so smooth, no surging and the car makes great power on race gas when I tested it. I released this information and the phones go nuts. We get quite a few orders for this turbo.
Weeks go by and there are no EVO9 turbos. Finally I get in contact with Robert at FP and ask if he has some. He doesn't want to sell to me at first as he wants to have them on hand. Finally we reach an agreement and I buy 8-10 (don't remember exactly how many I got) EVO9 turbos from him and have him drop ship them to Texas Rebuild. They build them into 20g-9's. I fill the first 8-10 orders with these turbos. Texas tells me it is going to be another 6-8 weeks for his turbos to come in and Robert is now out of turbos.
Robert contacts me and says he was smart enough to pre-order these EVO9 turbos a long time ago and will have more coming in. Unlucky for me Texas didn't do the same thing. He then asks me if I would test a SPECIAL version of the white rabbit if he sent one, it was a very very long conversation. I am very loyal guy. I do not like to switch suppliers and will buy at higher prices at times to stick with someone I have grown to trust, Texas Rebuild is such a company. Robert and I hadn't done much business together and with the entire WR deal and SPI and me not being able to buy them and him feeling at times that I was attacking him we were both very cautious. The actual agreement was this, "Send me a turbo, I will test it and if it works I will report to you that it does and then I will post the results of it. If it doesn't work I will keep my mouth shut completely and simply return it to you." I got the turbo and put it on my car. This testing took me 2-3 days of back to back to back swapping of the two turbos to determine the differences and such. In the end the bottom line was the turbos were the same. At first the was a difference in spool up that I couldn't pin point and that was the reason for swapping back and forth. The AFR mixtures stayed exactly the same telling me the flow was the same. The spool up was in the actuator for those of you wondering.
I called Robert and it was a huge burden for me to decide what to do from there. Robert and I both talked for hours over the next few days and spent even more time back and forth on AIM.
Robert had EVO9 turbos. Texas did not and still doesn't. We debated on changing the name of the turbo to something else as the WR got such a bad mouthing the first time around. Then after much discussion it came down to the fact that the turbo performed exactly as our 20g-9 did. Making up another name in our minds was useless. It would cause nothing but more confusion and mess. One thing the EVO world did not need was yet another turbo to confuse things.
I have to say again so you all understand. This modified WR turbo was built special for us to test. I had only seen or tested on other WR, this was Ivan's and his car did well on the dyno too. The main point is the dyno results were identical from these two different compressor wheels.
Now what I, Robert and Texas decided to do was just keep calling both turbos a 20g as the results, spool up and such were the same. There was no need to change and just confuse the EVO world further.
Also, Robert at FP will NOT build this same turbo for anyone else. What has been done to the turbo to make it work like our 20g is exclusive to our shop and can only be bought through us.
Had the turbo outperformed our 20g wheel in any aspect it would have been very easy for us to call it something else like the "Green Tornado" and tried to pass it off and sell it for yet another product that would have created a large amount of interest. This would have easily created new sales from more guys that wanted something new. This isn't how I operate.
As it stands today Texas still has no EVO9 turbos to build so the turbos that we are using now are the ones built for us from FP.
We, myself, Robert and Texas, knew there was going to be a time when this came up and it has made me uncomfortable from the beginning. I wanted to make sure when it did everyone got the entire story which is what I just gave. I do not feel this was dishonest and hope nobody else looks at it this way. As I said already, if the performance was different we would have changed the names or something. Maybe the way the WR was originally built there would have been a difference but with one we are running/selling there is none. You can be confident that no matter which one you have you will be getting the same spool up and performance from it.
With that, we like the turbos so much that 3 of us have these turbos on our own cars here. Myself, my brother and Trent. I would have to physically pull the inlet off of each car to figure out who had which one as I don't know, it doesn't matter as they are the same.
Here at the shop we have been referring to the turbo from FP as the 20g-9-5. The 5 being for the 5 blade design.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by IE Evo
Oh my! Alot of damage control in this thread. White Rabbit = 20 g-9. I feel sorry for the people that were not happy with the White rabbit and opted to get a 20 g-9. I would be pissed. Seems that the power is similar from both turbos, so what Dave articulates makes sense.
A WR is an Evo 8 turbo with FP's proprietary wheel.
a 20G-8 is an Evo 8 turbo with Buschur's 20G 6 blade wheel in it built by turbochargers.com
An original BR 20G-9 is an Evo 9 turbo that has Buschur's 6 blade 20G wheel in it and was built by turbochargers.com.
The latest 20G-9 (or 20G-9-5 as Dave has called it) is an Evo 9 turbo with a WR wheel in it built by FP.
- Steve
IE EVO,
Really no damage control going on as there has been no damage. Also please re-read the post I made as this is not the same WR Robert was selling. Number one is the turbo he is building exclusively for us is built soley in the EVO9 compressor housing. I am quite sure that this turbo is superior to the original WR.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Really no damage control going on as there has been no damage. Also please re-read the post I made as this is not the same WR Robert was selling. Number one is the turbo he is building exclusively for us is built soley in the EVO9 compressor housing. I am quite sure that this turbo is superior to the original WR.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by IE Evo
Oh my! Alot of damage control in this thread. White Rabbit = 20 g-9. I feel sorry for the people that were not happy with the White rabbit and opted to get a 20 g-9. I would be pissed. Seems that the power is similar from both turbos, so what Dave articulates makes sense.
This is for everyone of the arm chair tuners and mechanics posting here without personal knowledge... not so much the quoted.
I'll be willing to bet that anyone who may have a problem making power with the 20G-9 has made the same mistakes as those who couldn't make power with the WR. Combination, combination, combination! how many threads have we seen with X-owner with the same parts as Y-owner made a lot less power... X-mods for one owner made more power than a different manufacturer's X-mods for another. How many freaking "need help", or "what's wrong with my car" posts have we seen? Then you have "tuners" who couldn't make power with X-owner's car with X-mods and a "supercharged stock turbo". Yet you find that the "control" is nil... as in someone shows up with an unknown car, it gets rolled on the dyno for a dyno day, and it is deemed the turbos fault that the tuner could not extract X-numbers when the whole car is an unknown! I think the crowd is too fickle to pluck truth from fiction...
Last edited by Zeus; Feb 8, 2006 at 10:54 AM.
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
IE EVO,
Really no damage control going on as there has been no damage. Also please re-read the post I made as this is not the same WR Robert was selling. Number one is the turbo he is building exclusively for us is built soley in the EVO9 compressor housing. I am quite sure that this turbo is superior to the original WR.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Really no damage control going on as there has been no damage. Also please re-read the post I made as this is not the same WR Robert was selling. Number one is the turbo he is building exclusively for us is built soley in the EVO9 compressor housing. I am quite sure that this turbo is superior to the original WR.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
How about a back to back test of the original WR turbo vs 20G-9-5 turbo?