it is called supply and demand...buschur has the demand, FP has the supply...win/win for both

 

to fp performance for allowing older users to upgrade their WR to an evo9 cover! i'm sending mine in!

 

I concur! White Rabbit in a IX cover = 20 g-9? It will be interesting in the next few months to see how the Stock IX turbo does in comparison to the WR in IX housing or currently known as the BR 20g-9. I might be reading between the lines a lil but like Big Al says" I drink V Koolaid".
FWIW Big Al and Big Dave, it is not a bad product, but a lil overhyped IMO. People are thinking low 11s and possibly high tens with this turbo. I believe the pros, like yourselves, will achieve great things but your Joe Schmoe(basic bolt-ons) will not make the claimed power from this turbo. Only time will tell and for the many that invest in this product I wish u luck and I hope my pessimism comes to pass.

 

what im taking from this conversation is that there are essentially two variations of the 20G evo 9 being sold.

one with the true reverse rotation 20G wheel, and one with the WR wheel.

both according to buschurs test perform identically.

 

Something along them lines!

 

I believe in Buschur products also, what my whole car was done by Buschur...... Keep up the good work........

 

I agree with you 100% about David's very transparent and detailed manner of explaination.

I find his direct and honest approach very refreshing and I have found him to be 100% honest with every word he has spoken to me in the 2 1/5 years I have known him.

I know that his tremendous success in the aftermarket car business stems from his fair, decent and honest way of running a buisness.

I agree that he should not have to explain himself in such great details.

I know how David works and if either of the IX 20G options had not made the power on the dyno he would not be selling it.

BTW - I like the WR very much with the IX cover and other Buschur Changes, I also note that the WR has been a very reliable turbo to date.

Best regards

PS - Buschur has my car in his shop and as soon as it gets done and on a dyno I will be testing those Forced Performance cams

 

zeus - with all due respect, this concept of having to work to find a hypotehical "ideal conbination" to use with a particular turbo just does not resonate with me

I have a lot of experience with playing with turbos on AWD 4 cyl cars - first with my WRX and now with Evos and generally, when bolting on a new turbo you can discover very quickly what is going on. True in some limited cases you have to change intercooler size for example to realize all the available gains, but for the most part in a few dyno pulls you can see how it spools up and what kind of power it makes as you turn up the boost.

Sure, a turbo such as the BR IX -20G gives you less back pressure and allows you to teak the tune more - but - these type of gains are nominal.

IMHO whne you bolt on a turbo upgrade it should not require a lot of effort to see a significant improvement in power.

particularly with a so called true "bolt on" turbo as the Br IX 20G or WR I dont think most end users are interested in swapping out parts to realize the gain.

From my experince i can attest that the IX 20G of both variants will afford a significant and immediate improvement in the TQ curve and power with just about any evo it is bolted to.

I think the problem in the past is that some claims of dramatic HUGE power gains by other tuners from a turbo of this nature were unrealistic and created false expectations in the minds of some users. Apparently, some customers are still changing parts to achive some fantasty dyno figures which beared no relationship to what is possible given the laws of physics.

IMHO a turbo which can bolt on, mainatin a stock apperance and spools up just as fast as stock while creating a much broader TQ curve, more area uner the curve and 20 - 30 more peak whp is a great concept for a product which is not going to break the bank. I think if people have reasonable expectations about what the turbo can and will do then they will be very happy when they have it.

BTW - I have not seen ONE customer who actually had one of these units who was not happy with it after it was on the car.

 

How?

I thought the hotside of this turbo was the same as any other Evo turbo with a 10.5 hotside....

 

Must be due to the bigger compressor wheel

IMHO, the 20G could definitely benefit more w/ a bigger turbine wheel or turbine housing.

 

How, becuase the compressor is more efficient so on pump gas boost levels the turbo is not working as hard which means the wastegate is open further meaning less back pressure

Also, there are other details on the exhuast side which I am not at liberty to post

In addition, as the compressor section is more efficient the discharge air is cooler and denser as a given boost level

 

I totally agree with u AL and that was basically my point. Area under the Curve and 20-30 whp/tq is cool and what should be expected. However, too many people got wrapped up in the power Dave's RS was capable of making with his endless list of Mods. I know you alluded to other tuners responsible for unrealistic expectations out of similar turbos, however, Dave is not innocent concerning this practice. That is just how I see things Al and I am a pretty objective person. Also u telling me to get Psychoanalyzed is very funny in relation to my education and career. LOL

 

I see your point, and you missed mine... because if you shoot down my point of the different parts working together, you'd be shooting down David time and time again with his quotes of how the Buschur stages are a group of proper "combinations of parts" to get the job done...


My point was that many of these may have not performed well with the stock turbo... or may have not been the best combination of parts in the first place. Not so much an issue of the subject at hand (the turbo). You've been in the business long enough to know there are going to be people that bolt a Buschur 20G-9 on to their hodge-podge of parts with less than the stellar results they expect... and blame the "turbo".

BTW not to mention unknown mechanical problems...

 

I really don't think people or at least those with common sense are expecting high 10's out of this turbo. I'm sure it can be done but it's going to involve more than just slapping on a turbo. I think mid to high 11's are easily possible with the help of race gas and some high boost. This is pure speculation on my part...

I really don't know what else to say. I'm VERY happy with the turbo and everyone I've seen is happy as well. There is some good information in this thread and I think I'll just focus on that rather than trying to help "defend" a product I think already speaks for itself (or soon will once the drag strips open).

 

Thank you for asking. And thank you David for answering in such detail. You scored mucho brownie honesty points with myself and others I'm sure. Lots of us are looking at your 20G IX and threads like these attract lots of attention.