ATTN: FP Red & Black Users - What You Need to Know About Oil
Oct 11, 2010, 06:10 PM
#1
ATTN: FP Red & Black Users - What You Need to Know About Oil
There have been multiple discussions in this forum about oil, but there is something that FP Red and Black users specifically need to be aware of that does not apply to others.
I received a call from Robert at Forced Performance today, and we chatted about oil and the FP turbos. What makes FP Red and Black different from their brethren is the fact that whereas the other journal bushing turbos used a steel on brass bushing, FP fits the Red and Black turbos with a steel on steel bushing. I was unaware of this. And while it may be a seemingly minor detail, it becomes important when it's time to get an oil change.
When the turbo sees high shaft speeds, that places tremendous pressures on the shaft bushing. Theoretically the steel on steel bearing should support greater loads than the softer brass part, but when two sliding steel-faced surfaces are subjected to that level of pressure, this is where the EP (extreme pressure) additive content of the oil prevents those two hard steel surfaces from scuffing each other to death over the long haul. Therefore, FP Red and Black users should seek something other than oil that carries the latest ILSAC GF-4 classification. This same advice applies to engines with shim and bucket valvetrains (e.g. BMW 'M' engines, 2JZ-GTE, etc.), and/or older OHV domestic V8s that use flat tappet lifters, because all those engines have valvetrains that subject two slidng iron or steel-faced surfaces to high pressure loading.
FP makes specific oil suggestions for their Red and Black turbos here:
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
There are wide variations within those recommendations. I personally recommend a non-racing, full-synthetic oil for street cars. This guarantees the highest thermal stability, best cold weather performance, and a detergent package that keeps the internals clean over many, many miles.
I received a call from Robert at Forced Performance today, and we chatted about oil and the FP turbos. What makes FP Red and Black different from their brethren is the fact that whereas the other journal bushing turbos used a steel on brass bushing, FP fits the Red and Black turbos with a steel on steel bushing. I was unaware of this. And while it may be a seemingly minor detail, it becomes important when it's time to get an oil change.
When the turbo sees high shaft speeds, that places tremendous pressures on the shaft bushing. Theoretically the steel on steel bearing should support greater loads than the softer brass part, but when two sliding steel-faced surfaces are subjected to that level of pressure, this is where the EP (extreme pressure) additive content of the oil prevents those two hard steel surfaces from scuffing each other to death over the long haul. Therefore, FP Red and Black users should seek something other than oil that carries the latest ILSAC GF-4 classification. This same advice applies to engines with shim and bucket valvetrains (e.g. BMW 'M' engines, 2JZ-GTE, etc.), and/or older OHV domestic V8s that use flat tappet lifters, because all those engines have valvetrains that subject two slidng iron or steel-faced surfaces to high pressure loading.
FP makes specific oil suggestions for their Red and Black turbos here:
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
There are wide variations within those recommendations. I personally recommend a non-racing, full-synthetic oil for street cars. This guarantees the highest thermal stability, best cold weather performance, and a detergent package that keeps the internals clean over many, many miles.
Oct 11, 2010, 06:23 PM
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There have been multiple discussions in this forum about oil, but there is something that FP Red and Black users specifically need to be aware of that does not apply to others.
I received a call from Robert at Forced Performance today, and we chatted about oil and the FP turbos. What makes FP Red and Black different from their brethren is the fact that whereas the other journal bushing turbos used a steel on brass bushing, FP fits the Red and Black turbos with a steel on steel bushing. I was unaware of this. And while it may be a seemingly minor detail, it becomes important when it's time to get an oil change.
When the turbo sees high shaft speeds, that places tremendous pressures on the shaft bushing. Theoretically the steel on steel bearing should support greater loads than the softer brass part, but when two sliding steel-faced surfaces are subjected to that level of pressure, this is where the EP (extreme pressure) additive content of the oil prevents those two hard steel surfaces from scuffing each other to death over the long haul. Therefore, FP Red and Black users should seek something other than oil that carries the latest ILSAC GF-4 classification. This same advice applies to engines with shim and bucket valvetrains (e.g. BMW 'M' engines, 2JZ-GTE, etc.), and/or older OHV domestic V8s that use flat tappet lifters, because all those engines have valvetrains that subject two slidng iron or steel-faced surfaces to high pressure loading.
FP makes specific oil suggestions for their Red and Black turbos here:
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
There are wide variations within those recommendations. I personally recommend a non-racing, full-synthetic oil for street cars. This guarantees the highest thermal stability, best cold weather performance, and a detergent package that keeps the internals clean over many, many miles.
I received a call from Robert at Forced Performance today, and we chatted about oil and the FP turbos. What makes FP Red and Black different from their brethren is the fact that whereas the other journal bushing turbos used a steel on brass bushing, FP fits the Red and Black turbos with a steel on steel bushing. I was unaware of this. And while it may be a seemingly minor detail, it becomes important when it's time to get an oil change.
When the turbo sees high shaft speeds, that places tremendous pressures on the shaft bushing. Theoretically the steel on steel bearing should support greater loads than the softer brass part, but when two sliding steel-faced surfaces are subjected to that level of pressure, this is where the EP (extreme pressure) additive content of the oil prevents those two hard steel surfaces from scuffing each other to death over the long haul. Therefore, FP Red and Black users should seek something other than oil that carries the latest ILSAC GF-4 classification. This same advice applies to engines with shim and bucket valvetrains (e.g. BMW 'M' engines, 2JZ-GTE, etc.), and/or older OHV domestic V8s that use flat tappet lifters, because all those engines have valvetrains that subject two slidng iron or steel-faced surfaces to high pressure loading.
FP makes specific oil suggestions for their Red and Black turbos here:
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
There are wide variations within those recommendations. I personally recommend a non-racing, full-synthetic oil for street cars. This guarantees the highest thermal stability, best cold weather performance, and a detergent package that keeps the internals clean over many, many miles.
This is a great thread and something red and black owners need to be aware of, thanks Ted
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Oct 11, 2010, 06:47 PM
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I'd like to add something to Ted's post, an easy way to tell which oils DON'T have enough high pressure additives.
Look for the starburst label and you will find a two-letter code like SL or SM. SM is the newest rating, SL the second newest, etc. Few SM oils have appropriate levels of the high pressure additives which performance engines should have.
Some oils with the SM rating do have a good amount of high pressure additives (Mobil 1 15W50 comes to mind - I use it) but most don't.
Matt
Look for the starburst label and you will find a two-letter code like SL or SM. SM is the newest rating, SL the second newest, etc. Few SM oils have appropriate levels of the high pressure additives which performance engines should have.
Some oils with the SM rating do have a good amount of high pressure additives (Mobil 1 15W50 comes to mind - I use it) but most don't.
Matt
