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I'm curious how much of that increase is/was the vacuum pump. Could be 2hp or 10hp?
I wish you had done a pass with the pump off so we can see the oil blowing out all over the engine and how much that affected the output, but I can understand why you wouldn't want to chance it
My couple recommendation is to use a more sensitive vacuum gauge (a mechanical gauge which reads in inches of water is ideal), and it may be worth toning down the additional volume (smaller crankcase = fast pressure responses, that is why the pressure seems to raise and drop slowly) and to keep in mind in wet sump applications, vacuum in the crankcase will pull against the oil pump.
I'm curious how much of that increase is/was the vacuum pump. Could be 2hp or 10hp?
I wish you had done a pass with the pump off so we can see the oil blowing out all over the engine and how much that affected the output, but I can understand why you wouldn't want to chance it
My couple recommendation is to use a more sensitive vacuum gauge (a mechanical gauge which reads in inches of water is ideal), and it may be worth toning down the additional volume (smaller crankcase = fast pressure responses, that is why the pressure seems to raise and drop slowly) and to keep in mind in wet sump applications, vacuum in the crankcase will pull against the oil pump.
It pulls against the oil pump, but it also pulls the oil out of the bearings. It's net zero. Just like positive crankcase pressure becomes a net zero as far as the oil pump is concerned
I'm curious how much of that increase is/was the vacuum pump. Could be 2hp or 10hp?
I wish you had done a pass with the pump off so we can see the oil blowing out all over the engine and how much that affected the output, but I can understand why you wouldn't want to chance it
My couple recommendation is to use a more sensitive vacuum gauge (a mechanical gauge which reads in inches of water is ideal), and it may be worth toning down the additional volume (smaller crankcase = fast pressure responses, that is why the pressure seems to raise and drop slowly) and to keep in mind in wet sump applications, vacuum in the crankcase will pull against the oil pump.
Car was VTA off the valve cover to a vented catch can prior to this setup. The slow initial response of the gauge is because you have to displace the air from the block and once that is achieved the response times between -2" and -5" are quick. -2", seen under full boost, is equivalent to 0.9psi so I think the pump can handle less than a 1psi pressure differential and the resulting loss of 1psi oil pressure.
It pulls against the oil pump, but it also pulls the oil out of the bearings. It's net zero. Just like positive crankcase pressure becomes a net zero as far as the oil pump is concerned
Your the only person who ever stated this.
I'm not saying its wrong but it seems like manufacturers of vacuum pumps continuously warn people with wet sumps not to use alot of vacuum
Hall also cautions that pulling too much vacuum in a wet sump system can affect overall oil pressure. Vacuum in the system increases the oil volume that the engine flows based on the reduction in resistance the oil pump sees on the pressure side. Vacuum may draw oil out from between the bearings and journals like a straw; thus, flow increases and the system pressure drops. Running a high-volume pump is often necessary.
Engine builders appear to believe that the lack of oil to wrist pins caused by removal of too much oil mist from the crankcase causes wrist pin damage. Some engine builders report fluctuations in oil pressure above 12", we have not noticed that on engines we have observed during testing. However in a recent article, it was suggested that the air velocity passing through the block to heads at the oil return locations causes resistance to oil flowing back to the pan, which could indeed reduce oil pressure.
personally never had to run a vacuum pump, I just tie my **** to the pre-turbo intake and use a restrictive paper air filter element to get the drop in pressure I need. On a healthy engine with good baffle, there is no oil aspiration. And it keeps all those extra lines, pump and tubes out of the engine bay for lowly wet-sump applications.
What you have here is borderline dry sump power territory out of a 4-cylinder, IMO. Which is amazing (doesn't need to be said) but nevertheless I'm curious how much power it add(ed)
but these days the ideal option of course is to log pressure data using a computer which means a pressure sensor that does 0-100 inches of water. Which isn't hard to find or setup of course ($2.56? for amp and sensor if I buy 999 of them) and I'm sure you have a $20 arduino laying around by now.
It's too high for internet forums, this knowledge of small electrical components to that degree or finesse of crankcase evacuation in general isn't expected, and when you push for it, they reject it.
Decided to add an oil cooler back to the setup in time for the summer months. My OEM oil cooler had ~143K miles and was likely still in good shape, but I couldn't convince myself it was a good idea to reuse after that many miles without a professional cleaning and I did not want to spend $410 for a new OEM cooler at the time. I have been running the oil cooler delete plugs for ~11K miles since the new 2.15L was built. I started digging around for non OEM options and decided the best bang for the buck was the Derale 53408 and for some reason Amazon had 2 of them listed for $112/per shipped with Prime so I ordered one, which is half of the normal cost. Strange, when I just went back the remaining oil cooler is now $206, which is the normal cost.
I was looking at the OEM lines off of the oil filter housing and to my surprise they are -8 and not -10. I am going use the OEM hard lines off the oil filter housing and have my local hose shop braze on -8an male fittings because I like how the OEM hardlines route away from the filter housing. This should make connecting the oil cooler to the filter housing very easy and I will fabricate some custom brackets to make it work. I should be able to do the whole conversion for ~$200.
The new oil cooler arrived last week, but I just got around to mocking it up so I can order the fittings. The oil cooler is much larger than the stock unit so it makes getting it in there somewhat of a challenge, but I think I have it figured out. While I had the car on the lift I replaced the oil pressure spring that had been shaved down for my 2L by ~0.125" to get the pressure down to a reasonable number. However, on the new 2.15L the pressure was on the lower side of what I wanted so I just replaced the spring with a new factory unit.
I also checked the new catch can setup for accumulation and it was essentially dry with just a few drops coming out of the cap so that was not expected. Now that I have ~650 miles on the new turbo setup since the oil change I decided to check oil consumption. Keep in mind I have been beating on this thing a lot so I expected a decent amount of oil consumption, but to my surprise very little was gone.
I said that I would not post on here anymore due to the specific attitude of certain members, but after reading about Curt, I wanted to express my deepest condolences to his immediate family firstly and then to you for losing a good friend. Any person being as passionate about cars and motorsport in the way Curt Brown was and also being helpful towards others, is considered in my book as a person that actually uses his i.q and logical thinking in the best way possible, along with a great amount of kindness in his heart, and that person is a friend of mine no matter where he comes from of who he is, although I did knew off him through the forums and social media. May he rest in peace, and may God give strength, fortitude, and courage to his family.
In regards to your setup, your dyno results, although excellent, show and prove the quality degree, calorific value and octane rating difference between U.S and European pump gasoline. No wonder people prefer to use E85 for max results instead.
I said that I would not post on here anymore due to the specific attitude of certain members, but after reading about Curt, I wanted to express my deepest condolences to his immediate family firstly and then to you for losing a good friend. Any person being as passionate about cars and motorsport in the way Curt Brown was and also being helpful towards others, is considered in my book as a person that actually uses his i.q and logical thinking in the best way possible, along with a great amount of kindness in his heart, and that person is a friend of mine no matter where he comes from of who he is, although I did knew off him through the forums and social media. May he rest in peace, and may God give strength, fortitude, and courage to his family.
In regards to your setup, your dyno results, although excellent, show and prove the quality degree, calorific value and octane rating difference between U.S and European pump gasoline. No wonder people prefer to use E85 for max results instead.
Marios
Thanks for taking time to express your feelings about Curt and he was indeed a great man.
I setup the car for FlexFuel along with my GTR, but the closest station is ~25miles so I have yet to convince myself it is worth the headache. If a station was close I would have no problem going that route and would prefer the extra protection from the octane.
A few updates, ordered all the hoses and fittings for the oil cooler so I should be able to tackle that project next weekend.
Here is an interesting thing, I took a trip to Highlands, NC and the elevation is ~4000ft. When I reached about 3000ft I noticed the car was pulling much more vacuum on the block vs normal (8" vs 5") so I pulled over just to make sure the Secondary Air Injection Pump wasn't stuck on and it was not. I also noticed with the increased vacuum at idle (8") the oil pressure has dropped in the 5-10psi range vs 15-20psi. I am not worried about any of this, but definitely interesting occurrence.
The video is me cruising up the mountain under low load.
Always nice to see a big cooler in the proper orientation. I see way too many upside down coolers and cheapo replacements on these cars.
Originally Posted by Evo8cy
Good fitment. I run a mocal 25 row cooler.
Thanks for the kind words. I don't race the car so I probably could have gotten away with the slightly smaller (height) so it would not need to be angled in order to fit. Regardless, it does fit at an angle so I am happy with the results. The cooler has something like a ~0.75qt capacity so as soon as I pulled out of the driveway and drove 100ft I saw the pressure drop from ~80psi to ~35psi for 1-2 seconds and then quickly rebound, which was the pump filling the empty oil cooler. I guess this answers my question regarding flow through the cooler prior to the oil temperature reaching the thermostat set point.
No worries my friend, it's always nice to see well sorted builds. On mine I have fitted it on the stock location with custom brackets and fittings, it gets all the air from a carbon duct on the bumper. I'll see if I can find a pic.
Strange, when I just went back the remaining oil cooler is now $206, which is the normal cost.
