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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 05:29 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Evo8cy
-I do know what he meant, hence my comment on excessive vacuum draw, similar effect. The same goes for cornering faster generating more Gs. But in his case it should not be as such as there are higher power setups that do not suffer from gravitational force in regards to oil starvation. So the only cause that remains to wear out/damage a pump is rpm in his case, which it would be possible if he was revving it to 10K but he is not.


-I also suggested to him a few days ago, to put trap doors in the oil pan at the right places, for this exact reason, oil starvation,as a precaution to cornering mostly.
It is not possible for you or me to know EXACTLY why the pump failed, but perhaps you are right and perhaps you are wrong. Going to address the issue and move on with life.

Going to do the external oil pressure regulator as done by RSMike so I have been prepping the oil filter housing. I blocked off the off the factory bypass by taping 1/8" NPT and then drilled out the oil relief spring cap and welded a short piece of stainless tubing to it. The -10AN weld on bung will arrive Wednesday and I will weld that to the other end of the tube. Ordered a new oil pan, OEM Oil pump, fresh stuby shaft & balance shaft plug, gaskets, OEM oil pressure switch, and OEM oil thermostat. I will start modifying my old pan by creating a jig so I can figure out how it needs to be modified before hacking up the new pan.




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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 06:11 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
It is not possible for you or me to know EXACTLY why the pump failed, but perhaps you are right and perhaps you are wrong. Going to address the issue and move on with life.


-You can speak for yourself, but not for me. I told you why the pump failed, the major reason is the fact that it has to fight excessive vacuum draw which it has shortened its life due to oil starvation. My opinion is based on my experience and knowledge. I will stick to it. You have every right to doubt it and not accept it.


-I wish you all the best with your projects.








Marios
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 07:00 AM
  #93  
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I haven't put together a 500wtq+ Evo with a stock oil pan, so I can't say for sure one way or another. But oil starvation seems plausible. Combination of gforce, and possibly just draining the pan with revving to 9000 and do 1st-4th gear rip. Hard to be sure without oil pressure data.

240z, since the oil pump is being replaced, I would suggest grabbing an English Racing underdrive pump gear.
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 07:20 AM
  #94  
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-I have. Also plenty of 500+ wtrq hill climb setups over here, doing season after season on stock oil pump system. Some road cars also.

-The stock oil pump system can take the Gs and the revving, I mapped my current setup to 10K but I run it at 9600 rpm. It can take it but when combined with excessive vacuum draw, then one asks too much from it.


-I honestly hope this is sorted asap and he can enjoy his car.


The underdrive pulley I suspect is larger in diameter, if so it is a good mod. Timing will need to be checked though.




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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 07:25 AM
  #95  
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Yeah, it's larger. Requires an adjustable exhaust cam gear, and changes to the mivec table. It changes cam timing about 2.5*.
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 07:34 AM
  #96  
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Thought it would be the case, It needs actual timing checked with a light gun, both exhaust and mivec will be retarded,although at TDC it is completely retarded, it will go even further in retardation so its tables and settings need to be corrected.





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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 08:17 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Evo8cy
Thought it would be the case, It needs actual timing checked with a light gun

Marios
Why? TDC doesnt change and he has mivec.
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 08:25 AM
  #98  
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The fact that he has mivec does not change things and makes it ok. Mivec tables will need correction. With the larger oil pump gear, both cams are retarded, inlet and exhaust. One needs to verify that and also how much they have been retarded by comparing actual timing with the values in the ecu.





Marios
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 08:31 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Evo8cy
So the only cause that remains to wear out/damage a pump is rpm in his case, which it would be possible if he was revving it to 10K but he is not.
-I also suggested to him a few days ago, to put trap doors in the oil pan at the right places, for this exact reason, oil starvation,as a precaution to cornering mostly.
Originally Posted by Evo8cy
-You can speak for yourself, but not for me. I told you why the pump failed, the major reason is the fact that it has to fight excessive vacuum draw which it has shortened its life due to oil starvation. My opinion is based on my experience and knowledge. I will stick to it. You have every right to doubt it and not accept it.
Moving on now.
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 08:50 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
Moving on now.

-You got confused. I should have been more careful in my choice and composition of words. I'll elaborate/explain. English is not my native tongue.

-If you continued highlighting then you would read that I eliminate this cause due to not revving to 10K.

-The first quote on my first post was referring to rpm and torque as potential causes, and to the fact that in your case it could not be the Gs due to torque , since it is in moderate numbers, so what remains between these two is the rpm as a cause, but at that rpm limit the pump survives excellently, unless you think that it can't handle 8k. That could happen if you revved the setup to 10K, as it is the limit for the stock pump. So in other words none of these two by themselves alone are the causes of your pump failure.

-Combined though with excessive draw of vacuum, it did the damage. And in my second post I repeat this more clearly pointing as the major reason the excessive vacuum draw.



-As I said all the best with your projects.




Marios

Last edited by Evo8cy; Jul 7, 2020 at 09:07 AM. Reason: typo
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 09:19 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Evo8cy
-You got confused. I should have been more careful in my choice and composition of words. I'll elaborate/explain. English is not my native tongue.

-If you continued highlighting then you would read that I eliminate this cause due to not revving to 10K.

-The first quote on my first post was referring to rpm and torque as potential causes, and to the fact that in your case it could not be the Gs due to torque , since it is in moderate numbers, so what remains between these two is the rpm as a cause, but at that rpm limit the pump survives excellently, unless you think that it can't handle 8k. That could happen if you revved the setup to 10K, as it is the limit for the stock pump. So in other words none of these two by themselves alone are the causes of your pump failure.

-Combined though with excessive draw of vacuum, it did the damage. And in my second post I repeat this more clearly pointing as the major reason the excessive vacuum draw.



-As I said all the best with your projects.




Marios

With such extensive engine knowledge which F1 teams do you run?
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 09:36 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by colo_evo
With such extensive engine knowledge which F1 teams do you run?

-Taking the **** mate, is really not the right attitude for forum members, besides irony is for illiterate fools. I'm only stating my honest opinion, now if you do not like it, you have every right to do so and a simple "I disagree" would suffice.

-Enjoy your evo.



Marios
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 09:49 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Evo8cy
-Taking the **** mate, is really not the right attitude for forum members, besides irony is for illiterate fools. I'm only stating my honest opinion, now if you do not like it, you have every right to do so and a simple "I disagree" would suffice.

-Enjoy your evo.



Marios
Sorry to muddy up your thread James, wasnt my intention. I just dont quite agree with whatever marios is stating as facts.
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 09:53 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by colo_evo
Sorry to muddy up your thread James, wasnt my intention. I just dont quite agree with whatever marios is stating as facts.


-Now that's more like it, that's ok, no worries on that, not everyone has the same experiences, I'll stick to my facts, and you can stick to whatever you do know.







Marios
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Old Jul 7, 2020 | 10:01 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Evo8cy
The fact that he has mivec does not change things and makes it ok. Mivec tables will need correction. With the larger oil pump gear, both cams are retarded, inlet and exhaust. One needs to verify that and also how much they have been retarded by comparing actual timing with the values in the ecu.

Marios
Not true.. mivec cars measure inlet cam timing relative to the cam sensor not the position of the cam gear.. You may need to machine the cam gear a bit to get the full cam advance.. but otherwise the inlet cam timing stays the same..
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