New Club on Evom: Truth Squad
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iTrader: (7)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 0
From: Del Monte Beach, Monterey, CA
ditto.. There have been some great discussions on this site, however its almost impossible to find them without searching through loads of trash.. perhaps certain topics with a good amount of information can be tagged so they come to the top when you go to search... I.E., when you go to search for sparkplugs, the first 20 posts are a bunch of nonsense.. while there has been a great conversation covering them that wraps everything up already.
Originally Posted by 992gnt
Some random thoughts:
Extracting specific info from this site is getting increasingly difficult. I rarely visit the General Evo forum; it's a complete mess. Creating a group for new members to look to for accurate information with open enrollment won't work. There are some really good ideas in this thread, and I applaud the efforts of those trying to effect change. I've been involved with several car forums over the years and this kind of thing happens on all of them. Identifying those members that can actually help is the difficult part, as is clamping down on the repetitive posts. Perhaps making the "Newbie" forum more prevalent would help. Make the registration email link go directly there? I try to contribute when I can, and I NEVER post a question without searching first. If everybody did that we wouldn't have this thread.
Extracting specific info from this site is getting increasingly difficult. I rarely visit the General Evo forum; it's a complete mess. Creating a group for new members to look to for accurate information with open enrollment won't work. There are some really good ideas in this thread, and I applaud the efforts of those trying to effect change. I've been involved with several car forums over the years and this kind of thing happens on all of them. Identifying those members that can actually help is the difficult part, as is clamping down on the repetitive posts. Perhaps making the "Newbie" forum more prevalent would help. Make the registration email link go directly there? I try to contribute when I can, and I NEVER post a question without searching first. If everybody did that we wouldn't have this thread.
Lets test the search function:
BOV = 7580 threads
ACD = 1638 threads
MAS = 1455 threads
MAF = 3367 threads
LSD = 1964 threads
In each of these searches if you actaully try to find information on what you are looking for you fine one noob asking a question (because the search functions sucks and he couldn't get any good information) and 10 to 20 replies from other noobs who don't know $hit themselves with at least 5 replies saying "do a search noob"
That is the downward spiral Warr is talking about. The signal to noise ratio has gone in the toilet here
BOV = 7580 threads
ACD = 1638 threads
MAS = 1455 threads
MAF = 3367 threads
LSD = 1964 threads
In each of these searches if you actaully try to find information on what you are looking for you fine one noob asking a question (because the search functions sucks and he couldn't get any good information) and 10 to 20 replies from other noobs who don't know $hit themselves with at least 5 replies saying "do a search noob"
That is the downward spiral Warr is talking about. The signal to noise ratio has gone in the toilet here
Originally Posted by GPTourer
Your intentions are admirable, but that is just life. The Evo is a fad car for a lot of people. It is the IN thing to have because it is new and on the cover of a lot of magazines. There are going to be people like that no matter what you or we or whoever does. The types with more money then brains, or those that are to be taken advantage of. I'm all for cutting down on the garbage posts, maybe do away with Evo General all together. Have a newb forum and an advanced forum, how to's, etc. More moderation in general would be great. But there will always be the people who are going to dump thousands into a car with no real tune, blow their **** up and then come on here and say X product sucks, or Y shop robbed me. There's nothing a truth squad is going to be able to do for those types. They'll just sell their car and move on to something else.
Originally Posted by Mike@Forge
Excuse me for being so frank but who the hell are you to question my motives for posting on this forum?
I've been nothing but polite and considerate to every single forum member and have provided what I can only assume has been received as useful information as I have not been told otherwise, so for you to question my motives and reasons for being here and for you to "trivialize" my right to being an enthusiast in comparison to your own says a lot.
If you have something that you would like to discuss with me, personally, I suggest you contact me directly off-forum instead of trying to publicly slander me, my business, or my methods.
I have in no way trivialized the forum nor any of it's members. Quite the contrary in fact. As I mentioned previously, EVERYONE's opinions, questions, and level's of expertise are valid and deserve just as much respect as anyone elses, so my entire point is that we don't need a new group of elitist individual's whose sole purpose (as described by you) is to use "all means possible" to squelch those threads, questions, posts, or forum members that don't suit "their" fancy.
This entire idea is what moderators are for.
That's my point.
I've been nothing but polite and considerate to every single forum member and have provided what I can only assume has been received as useful information as I have not been told otherwise, so for you to question my motives and reasons for being here and for you to "trivialize" my right to being an enthusiast in comparison to your own says a lot.
If you have something that you would like to discuss with me, personally, I suggest you contact me directly off-forum instead of trying to publicly slander me, my business, or my methods.
I have in no way trivialized the forum nor any of it's members. Quite the contrary in fact. As I mentioned previously, EVERYONE's opinions, questions, and level's of expertise are valid and deserve just as much respect as anyone elses, so my entire point is that we don't need a new group of elitist individual's whose sole purpose (as described by you) is to use "all means possible" to squelch those threads, questions, posts, or forum members that don't suit "their" fancy.
This entire idea is what moderators are for.
That's my point.
If you also plan to help the myriad of newbies with all sorts of problems ranging from mod selection to racing venues to financing problems to warranty claims, then I applaud you, but I don't see that as being in the best interests of you or your business, since it would take up a lot of that valuable time you mentioned before.
As for the whole "trivializing" issue. No, I have in no way trivialized your value to this forum, and I'm not sure why you'd suggest that. Yes, you did trivialize this forum and it's meaning to us by suggesting we NOT care so much and that we spend more time and effort on other things in life. That is indisputable, because you wrote it yourself twice in posts above. these issues are not trivial to us, and they are worth the effort to have a group of people who are held to a higher standard. This is by no means an "elitist" group, but rather a group of people who make an extra effort to help others while being held to a higher standard of interaction/communication/knowledge. Mods will moderate...this is not moderation, but rather enlightenment of the masses.
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,312
Likes: 3
From: Birmingham, AL
I think those people who want real help will seek it out anyway. But like I said, if you think we need a truth squad, or more gurus, or more rank to help point those people out, then again that's fine, I'm not against it. I just think the more pressing issue is cleaning out the fluff and "noise" posts that get in the way of finding the true information. The VTA BOV crowd will do whatever they want to do, and then if they come around, they can see light, and if they post a goofy thread, it'll get struck down.
It's the same on the DSM boards (the public ones anyway), one used to be notorious for harsh treatment of noobs with dumb *** questions, one was more lenient and thus was ridiculed for being more about ricer mods then actual info. Well, ownership of the "harsh" one changed, and things changed quite a bit, but the FAQS, tech documents, stickys, its all there within easy access to every member, yet I bet it wouldn't take me long to find a loudest exhaust thread, or a "Why does my car idle like crap with my mAd tYte VtA BoV?" Even though the info is there withing easy reach.
A truth squad, IMO, would be like a luxury addition to a decent home, like a jacuzi or a enclosed deck, but we've got more pressing issues, like that water leak in the basement. More moderation to keep the rampant cross posting, reposting, etc etc, signal to noise ratio is a great way to put it. That needs to be dealt with first.
It's the same on the DSM boards (the public ones anyway), one used to be notorious for harsh treatment of noobs with dumb *** questions, one was more lenient and thus was ridiculed for being more about ricer mods then actual info. Well, ownership of the "harsh" one changed, and things changed quite a bit, but the FAQS, tech documents, stickys, its all there within easy access to every member, yet I bet it wouldn't take me long to find a loudest exhaust thread, or a "Why does my car idle like crap with my mAd tYte VtA BoV?" Even though the info is there withing easy reach.
A truth squad, IMO, would be like a luxury addition to a decent home, like a jacuzi or a enclosed deck, but we've got more pressing issues, like that water leak in the basement. More moderation to keep the rampant cross posting, reposting, etc etc, signal to noise ratio is a great way to put it. That needs to be dealt with first.
Last edited by GPTourer; Nov 30, 2005 at 12:09 PM.
Originally Posted by GPTourer
I think those people who want real help will seek it out anyway. But like I said, if you think we need a truth squad, or more gurus, or more rank to help point those people out, then again that's fine, I'm not against it. I just think the more pressing issue is cleaning out the fluff and "noise" posts that get in the way of finding the true information. The VTA BOV crowd will do whatever the want to do, and then if they come around, they can see light, and if they post a goofy thread, it'll struck down.
It's the same on the DSM boards (the public ones anyway), one used to be notorious for harsh treatment of noobs with dumb *** questions, one was more lenient and thus was ridiculed for being more about ricer mods then actual info. Well, ownership of the "harsh" ones changed, and things changed quite a bit, but the FAQS, tech documents, stickys, its all there within easy access to every member, yet I bet it wouldn't take me long to find a loudest exhaust thread, or a "Why does my car idle like crap with my mAd tYte VtA BoV?"
A truth squad, IMO, would be like a luxury addition to a decent home, like a jacuzi or a enclosed deck, but we've got more pressing issues, like that water leak in the basement. More moderation to keep the rampant cross posting, reposting, etc etc, signal to noise ratio ias a great way to put it. That needs to be dealt with first.
It's the same on the DSM boards (the public ones anyway), one used to be notorious for harsh treatment of noobs with dumb *** questions, one was more lenient and thus was ridiculed for being more about ricer mods then actual info. Well, ownership of the "harsh" ones changed, and things changed quite a bit, but the FAQS, tech documents, stickys, its all there within easy access to every member, yet I bet it wouldn't take me long to find a loudest exhaust thread, or a "Why does my car idle like crap with my mAd tYte VtA BoV?"
A truth squad, IMO, would be like a luxury addition to a decent home, like a jacuzi or a enclosed deck, but we've got more pressing issues, like that water leak in the basement. More moderation to keep the rampant cross posting, reposting, etc etc, signal to noise ratio ias a great way to put it. That needs to be dealt with first.
Why not setup an evopoadia (based on wikipedia - a free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.) then? More info on what it is and how it works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia
Here is link to software that would need to be installed & configured: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
It will allow people to post new topics, edit/append to old topics but any additions such as "mee too's", questions, non facutal opionions, etc. would never make it in by the pure nature of its design. Images are also supported. This system can be setup for free or little cost, is moderated by one or more individuals, is a lot more search friendly and non redundant. Also, it will limit the size too, no more reading a 500 page thread to extract 2 pages of useful info on a particular topic. Another way of to think of this is an interactive FAQ, but there is no single author responsible for the updates.
Forums are not a good tool for keeping recurrent topics around without repeating & personal commentary. Forums are great for topics that have a lifespan of several days -that is about it.
Here is link to software that would need to be installed & configured: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
It will allow people to post new topics, edit/append to old topics but any additions such as "mee too's", questions, non facutal opionions, etc. would never make it in by the pure nature of its design. Images are also supported. This system can be setup for free or little cost, is moderated by one or more individuals, is a lot more search friendly and non redundant. Also, it will limit the size too, no more reading a 500 page thread to extract 2 pages of useful info on a particular topic. Another way of to think of this is an interactive FAQ, but there is no single author responsible for the updates.
Forums are not a good tool for keeping recurrent topics around without repeating & personal commentary. Forums are great for topics that have a lifespan of several days -that is about it.
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
I disagree, though. Your view of the issue here is the REAL problem that is plaguing us. People just think, "Oh, there will always be noobs who throw away money, and that will never stop," but I disagree. I have already helped MANY people who WOULD have fallen into that category had I not gotten their attention. Instead, these people stopped their initial plans, learned from people with experience, and then made educated decisions on their mod purchases. It has happened over and over again. It usually starts with that person not liking me for the way I shoot down their initial plans, but it always ends up with them thanking me profusely and being much more happy with their decisions. There's always a few who just don't care and go on about their business, but that is ok with me. It's the ones who don't know any better and end up wasting money unnecessarily only because some other noob said it was cool or some magazine made it look cool or some vendor made it sound cool. I know you can't see all of the PMs and IMs I've received over the past year, but believe me when I say that I have saved many people from making poor decisions, and I hope to do this even more via the "Truth Squad" medium.
and what happens if someone doesnt agree with the truth squad? Are their opinions useless unless part of the club?
and if someone buys a part that the truth squad doesnt recommend. are they going to be ridiculed for their purchase?
Originally Posted by burningmoney97
why not just change the name to "Warrtalon Squad"
and what happens if someone doesnt agree with the truth squad? Are their opinions useless unless part of the club?
and if someone buys a part that the truth squad doesnt recommend. are they going to be ridiculed for their purchase?
and what happens if someone doesnt agree with the truth squad? Are their opinions useless unless part of the club?
and if someone buys a part that the truth squad doesnt recommend. are they going to be ridiculed for their purchase?
People don't have to agree with us. The point is that we hopefully have a solid group of guys with a lot of knowledge who can provide fact-based, intelligent suggestions. I'm sure the squad members won't always agree on parts either, but that's not the point. The point is to help; not to rule with an iron fist.
No, of course they won't get ridiculed. People can buy whatever they want. We aren't here to force people; we are here to educate. What people do with that education is up to them.
Originally Posted by burningmoney97
why not just change the name to "Warrtalon Squad"
and what happens if someone doesnt agree with the truth squad? Are their opinions useless unless part of the club?
and if someone buys a part that the truth squad doesnt recommend. are they going to be ridiculed for their purchase?
and what happens if someone doesnt agree with the truth squad? Are their opinions useless unless part of the club?
and if someone buys a part that the truth squad doesnt recommend. are they going to be ridiculed for their purchase?
Sure, the "truth squad" will have opinions on things, but they'll need to separate their "truth squad" responses from the personal responses somehow.
Originally Posted by xtnct
Why not setup an evopoadia (based on wikipedia - a free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.) then? More info on what it is and how it works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia
Here is link to software that would need to be installed & configured: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
It will allow people to post new topics, edit/append to old topics but any additions such as "mee too's", questions, non facutal opionions, etc. would never make it in by the pure nature of its design. Images are also supported. This system can be setup for free or little cost, is moderated by one or more individuals, is a lot more search friendly and non redundant. Also, it will limit the size too, no more reading a 500 page thread to extract 2 pages of useful info on a particular topic. Another way of to think of this is an interactive FAQ, but there is no single author responsible for the updates.
Forums are not a good tool for keeping recurrent topics around without repeating & personal commentary. Forums are great for topics that have a lifespan of several days -that is about it.
Here is link to software that would need to be installed & configured: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
It will allow people to post new topics, edit/append to old topics but any additions such as "mee too's", questions, non facutal opionions, etc. would never make it in by the pure nature of its design. Images are also supported. This system can be setup for free or little cost, is moderated by one or more individuals, is a lot more search friendly and non redundant. Also, it will limit the size too, no more reading a 500 page thread to extract 2 pages of useful info on a particular topic. Another way of to think of this is an interactive FAQ, but there is no single author responsible for the updates.
Forums are not a good tool for keeping recurrent topics around without repeating & personal commentary. Forums are great for topics that have a lifespan of several days -that is about it.
Originally Posted by Mike@Forge
Excuse me for being so frank but who the hell are you to question my motives for posting on this forum?
I've been nothing but polite and considerate to every single forum member and have provided what I can only assume has been received as useful information as I have not been told otherwise, so for you to question my motives and reasons for being here and for you to "trivialize" my right to being an enthusiast in comparison to your own says a lot.
If you have something that you would like to discuss with me, personally, I suggest you contact me directly off-forum instead of trying to publicly slander me, my business, or my methods.
I have in no way trivialized the forum nor any of it's members. Quite the contrary in fact. As I mentioned previously, EVERYONE's opinions, questions, and level's of expertise are valid and deserve just as much respect as anyone elses, so my entire point is that we don't need a new group of elitist individual's whose sole purpose (as described by you) is to use "all means possible" to squelch those threads, questions, posts, or forum members that don't suit "their" fancy.
This entire idea is what moderators are for.
That's my point.
I've been nothing but polite and considerate to every single forum member and have provided what I can only assume has been received as useful information as I have not been told otherwise, so for you to question my motives and reasons for being here and for you to "trivialize" my right to being an enthusiast in comparison to your own says a lot.
If you have something that you would like to discuss with me, personally, I suggest you contact me directly off-forum instead of trying to publicly slander me, my business, or my methods.
I have in no way trivialized the forum nor any of it's members. Quite the contrary in fact. As I mentioned previously, EVERYONE's opinions, questions, and level's of expertise are valid and deserve just as much respect as anyone elses, so my entire point is that we don't need a new group of elitist individual's whose sole purpose (as described by you) is to use "all means possible" to squelch those threads, questions, posts, or forum members that don't suit "their" fancy.
This entire idea is what moderators are for.
That's my point.
But weight of numbers mean that when 5 noobs tell the newest noob that your product is the best thing since sliced bread, and 10 other noobs tell the newest noob that your product sucks guess what happens? If you did not have the ability to use the "report a post" button to complain about the people who bash your product your perception of the signal to noise ratio problem would be significantly different. Since you do have the "report a post" function with 10 clicks of your mouse and the simple phrase "vendor bashing, please delet" you have a pretty good chance of having a 5 to 0 ratio of positive posts in your favor from the noob population. In reality all 15 of the noobs in the example didn't know their @ss from a hole in the ground compared to you, or compared to a knowledable member of the boards. Without that report a post button these useless posts could ruin your business.
Keith
I'd like to say something
With all this talk about making the site better, I think we could benefit from more moderators. Im not very sure a "truth squad" would the best way of going about these things. In theory it is a good idea but it will just start fights because everything 99% of the time biased. You might as well start an evo religion.
We basically need more "police" to get the "scum"(aka what we dont want, im not saying people are scum) off of the "street". Excuse my excessive use of quotations.
This site has grown quite greatly since I started reading here (which was when it first popped up). I think it would be good to have more people around to delete threads that add nothing to the community especially with their recent consistency to pop up.
I also don't blame the individual for coming on here and asking questions that have been covered. It is the way the system and the internet work, we should blame the system. To cure this we need to spend time so that our system is set up so that we have less spam. Either by making the topics we've beaten to death very easy for noobs to find or by limiting their access to ask these questions in technical or even semi technical forums
With all this talk about making the site better, I think we could benefit from more moderators. Im not very sure a "truth squad" would the best way of going about these things. In theory it is a good idea but it will just start fights because everything 99% of the time biased. You might as well start an evo religion.
We basically need more "police" to get the "scum"(aka what we dont want, im not saying people are scum) off of the "street". Excuse my excessive use of quotations.
This site has grown quite greatly since I started reading here (which was when it first popped up). I think it would be good to have more people around to delete threads that add nothing to the community especially with their recent consistency to pop up.
I also don't blame the individual for coming on here and asking questions that have been covered. It is the way the system and the internet work, we should blame the system. To cure this we need to spend time so that our system is set up so that we have less spam. Either by making the topics we've beaten to death very easy for noobs to find or by limiting their access to ask these questions in technical or even semi technical forums
Originally Posted by Fourdoor
Lets test the search function:
BOV = 7580 threads
ACD = 1638 threads
MAS = 1455 threads
MAF = 3367 threads
LSD = 1964 threads
In each of these searches if you actaully try to find information on what you are looking for you fine one noob asking a question (because the search functions sucks and he couldn't get any good information) and 10 to 20 replies from other noobs who don't know $hit themselves with at least 5 replies saying "do a search noob"
That is the downward spiral Warr is talking about. The signal to noise ratio has gone in the toilet here
BOV = 7580 threads
ACD = 1638 threads
MAS = 1455 threads
MAF = 3367 threads
LSD = 1964 threads
In each of these searches if you actaully try to find information on what you are looking for you fine one noob asking a question (because the search functions sucks and he couldn't get any good information) and 10 to 20 replies from other noobs who don't know $hit themselves with at least 5 replies saying "do a search noob"
That is the downward spiral Warr is talking about. The signal to noise ratio has gone in the toilet here
2. Get rid of Evo General all together. If someone wants to spout off or rant about how they got pulled over today the only choice would be in what? OFF TOPIC!
3. Why is it so hard to lock and sticky a thread for new people to go read instead of asking dumb questions? Evom already has the how to section, why not the product section, or info section?
4. Make a section just for the new members. Give them access to all the info they will need. Direct them to the info without them having to search threw 3,000 threads. You can make it into catagorys and then into sub catagorys. (see below)
Catgory Engine
1. Head
a. cams
b. valves
c. springs
d. benefits of porting, etc, etc.......
2. Engine block
a. pistons
b. rods
c. rings
d. cylinder pressure temps, etc.....
3. Basic Mods
a. intake
b. exhaust
c. boost controller, etc....
You guys have the ability to set this site up any way you please, but I think making a section completely out of fact based reading is a whole lot better than having a posse patrol the site and set some newb straight.
