New Club on Evom: Truth Squad
Originally Posted by voidhawk
I think an evo specific wikipedia is a great idea - maybe the best one in this thread yet. It would accomplish much of what everybody has been clamoring for, but in a non-confrontational way. As part of EvoM, it would lift this board a big notch upward on the usefulness scale.
which is why i brought up the point earlier that no one noticed, is it the fact that evom has NO FAQ. and which is why i'm all for all the mods giving us some homework adn compiling all the info.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
I would just like to add as an Evo owner very often the input of so called "vendors" who work daily in and out of evos all day is to me some of the most valuable info for myself. I really have enjoyed the posts of guys like Shiv, David Buschur and Mark from TT and other vendors who have taken time to participate in the forums. The view point of these people who really know what they are talking about is very valuable and I personally really LIKE the fact that you can have prominent well regarded tuners in the business on these forums answering tech questions and providing personal insights about things I would not otherwise learn about. If you dont't think you can learn from Shiv or David Buschur then I think you are wrong.
While many of these vendors - including myself - do work on promoting their business- much of what is writen may not have relationship to the vendor's product. The vendors are for the most part people who have made the work on cars a lifestyle and who mostly all work long hours to try and help the customers realize their automotive goals. In my experience - take it for what its worth - most useless crap mods purcahsed by new evo owners stem from vendors who do not participate in the discussions on these forums and for the most part are not even registered vendors.
Speaking for myself there are many situations where people post questions totally unrelated to my product and ask my opinion. I would like to think that I may have at times some data or info which can be of help in techical or racing subjects. People should take in all info given and evaulate it with reason.
My own idea is that there is not one "truth" to car modifications. There are many approaches. While I may not care for a certain product - that is just my idea. I think it adds value to the forums when all prospective appoarches can be presented and succeed or fail on their own merrits.
I find a healthy debate pepered with input from guru's, newbies, and professional vednors is often a great place for me to learn and always something I want to spend my valuable time reading.
Finally, these forums and my evo are a huge part of my own personal life. I was a evo owner and evo m member first and vendor second. Most of the guys I know who are vendors started the same way. I personally enjoy the evomutionm forums and commend the moderators and members here. I am proud to post comments here and I have little or no presense on any other forums. Just my two cents.
While many of these vendors - including myself - do work on promoting their business- much of what is writen may not have relationship to the vendor's product. The vendors are for the most part people who have made the work on cars a lifestyle and who mostly all work long hours to try and help the customers realize their automotive goals. In my experience - take it for what its worth - most useless crap mods purcahsed by new evo owners stem from vendors who do not participate in the discussions on these forums and for the most part are not even registered vendors.
Speaking for myself there are many situations where people post questions totally unrelated to my product and ask my opinion. I would like to think that I may have at times some data or info which can be of help in techical or racing subjects. People should take in all info given and evaulate it with reason.
My own idea is that there is not one "truth" to car modifications. There are many approaches. While I may not care for a certain product - that is just my idea. I think it adds value to the forums when all prospective appoarches can be presented and succeed or fail on their own merrits.
I find a healthy debate pepered with input from guru's, newbies, and professional vednors is often a great place for me to learn and always something I want to spend my valuable time reading.
Finally, these forums and my evo are a huge part of my own personal life. I was a evo owner and evo m member first and vendor second. Most of the guys I know who are vendors started the same way. I personally enjoy the evomutionm forums and commend the moderators and members here. I am proud to post comments here and I have little or no presense on any other forums. Just my two cents.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
My own idea is that there is not one "truth" to car modifications. There are many approaches.
Originally Posted by Mike@Forge
One must wonder...
... what prompted the idea to start a "truth squad"?
What singular bad experience did smogrunner have that gave him cause tp feel the need to come up with this idea and present it to the masses?
I think that is an issue that needs resolving with whomever this experience was shared with before anyone tries to start a "revolution".
I applaud the out of the box thinking and having every good intention for the establishment of this "group", but is it really necessary?
I think having an independent "panel" of unbiased forum members who can offer contexutually fact based and independent opinions is a good thing, not only to limit unnecessary postings by new members (I don't much like the word newbies), but to offer subjective opinions into otherwise heated discussions, however, I feel that there cannot be a club, group, "squad", nor any other secular aspect to the selection process, and that this entire idea is the basis for the inherent need for "moderators".
This is next to impossible to accomplish and to meet the needs of everyone to whom this will pertain to, but attmepting to segregate any members of the forum (aside from the vendor/non-vendor classification) is counterproductive.
In all honesty, this forum is, or should be, a fairly small part of the majority of our daily lives, and shouldn't be taken so seriously as to try to start up a "local government" type of feeling. Nothing on the forums should ever be taken so seriously as to give anyone any reason not to continue to post nor to feel like their opinions and questions are invalid in anyway. Inappropriate for a certain forum or if the issue has already been covered, yes, but the idea to offer exclusivity to a "higher" group of forum members is a little archaic, if you can excuse my frankness.
Call it feeling left out, or jealousy, or view my opinions as unimportant to this discussion if you want, because we are not yet a forum sponsor (which we hope to finalize within the next week) or because I work for a manufacturer/tuner, but consider this....
.... have things really gotten SO bad on the forum that individuals can't just let the occasional bickering and "newbie type posts" go and move on?
Why does everyone get so worked up over such inconsequential things that should really have no bearing on our daily lives?
Just my opinion!
... what prompted the idea to start a "truth squad"?
What singular bad experience did smogrunner have that gave him cause tp feel the need to come up with this idea and present it to the masses?
I think that is an issue that needs resolving with whomever this experience was shared with before anyone tries to start a "revolution".
I applaud the out of the box thinking and having every good intention for the establishment of this "group", but is it really necessary?
I think having an independent "panel" of unbiased forum members who can offer contexutually fact based and independent opinions is a good thing, not only to limit unnecessary postings by new members (I don't much like the word newbies), but to offer subjective opinions into otherwise heated discussions, however, I feel that there cannot be a club, group, "squad", nor any other secular aspect to the selection process, and that this entire idea is the basis for the inherent need for "moderators".
This is next to impossible to accomplish and to meet the needs of everyone to whom this will pertain to, but attmepting to segregate any members of the forum (aside from the vendor/non-vendor classification) is counterproductive.
In all honesty, this forum is, or should be, a fairly small part of the majority of our daily lives, and shouldn't be taken so seriously as to try to start up a "local government" type of feeling. Nothing on the forums should ever be taken so seriously as to give anyone any reason not to continue to post nor to feel like their opinions and questions are invalid in anyway. Inappropriate for a certain forum or if the issue has already been covered, yes, but the idea to offer exclusivity to a "higher" group of forum members is a little archaic, if you can excuse my frankness.
Call it feeling left out, or jealousy, or view my opinions as unimportant to this discussion if you want, because we are not yet a forum sponsor (which we hope to finalize within the next week) or because I work for a manufacturer/tuner, but consider this....
.... have things really gotten SO bad on the forum that individuals can't just let the occasional bickering and "newbie type posts" go and move on?
Why does everyone get so worked up over such inconsequential things that should really have no bearing on our daily lives?
Just my opinion!
I know Warralton (on purpose...I love you man!) will tell me Im a noob or newbie and I am! I have learned so much about already about a car I dont own (but do sell) and I appreciate each and every members contribution (even the bickering is a comical relief from the daily BS).
The fact is that this is a great forum and you have some great people on here (Warralton...lol... is one of them). I have seen Talon helping numerous people and giving some great advise, but I have also seen him being a little over critical to some new members. Talon, you have my vote for senior forum leader... but do you need a TRUTH SQUAD?
Originally Posted by Fourdoor
Lets test the search function:
BOV = 7580 threads
ACD = 1638 threads
MAS = 1455 threads
MAF = 3367 threads
LSD = 1964 threads
In each of these searches if you actaully try to find information on what you are looking for you fine one noob asking a question (because the search functions sucks and he couldn't get any good information) and 10 to 20 replies from other noobs who don't know $hit themselves with at least 5 replies saying "do a search noob"
That is the downward spiral Warr is talking about. The signal to noise ratio has gone in the toilet here
BOV = 7580 threads
ACD = 1638 threads
MAS = 1455 threads
MAF = 3367 threads
LSD = 1964 threads
In each of these searches if you actaully try to find information on what you are looking for you fine one noob asking a question (because the search functions sucks and he couldn't get any good information) and 10 to 20 replies from other noobs who don't know $hit themselves with at least 5 replies saying "do a search noob"
That is the downward spiral Warr is talking about. The signal to noise ratio has gone in the toilet here
Amen Brother! You don't know how many times I've trying to invent something that would take all the "good useful" posts from this site and import them into a seperate forum.
Hell I've got simple txt docs and things I've created from information from this site. The knowledge is here.. it's just a matter of organizing it in a way that even the most lazy noob WILL use.
Just last night I was trying to put together information on which shifter bushings fit best.. haven't had problems.. to determine if I wanted metal or poly. Of course I have my own idea's and opinions before reading about them.. but it took me around an hour to complete this task.
I really think this is a great idea.. and to be quite honest I haven't been able to follow the thread as well as I should... I have this problem with a lot of threads.. they become 50+ pages in a matter of hours which makes it tiresome to sort through.
I would like to help in any way that I can. I know a lot you gearheads have probably forgotten more about cars than I know... but I have been "playing" with dms's for several years and have some good things to offer here and there.
I have years of experience in the IT field. Those in this field know that writing good documenation for end users is a must. I don't want to bore everyone with the technical things I can help with (php/sql/vB/etc).. I just want to help if I can
Originally Posted by justchil
Amen Brother! You don't know how many times I've trying to invent something that would take all the "good useful" posts from this site and import them into a seperate forum.
Hell I've got simple txt docs and things I've created from information from this site. The knowledge is here.. it's just a matter of organizing it in a way that even the most lazy noob WILL use.
Just last night I was trying to put together information on which shifter bushings fit best.. haven't had problems.. to determine if I wanted metal or poly. Of course I have my own idea's and opinions before reading about them.. but it took me around an hour to complete this task.
I really think this is a great idea.. and to be quite honest I haven't been able to follow the thread as well as I should... I have this problem with a lot of threads.. they become 50+ pages in a matter of hours which makes it tiresome to sort through.
I would like to help in any way that I can. I know a lot you gearheads have probably forgotten more about cars than I know... but I have been "playing" with dms's for several years and have some good things to offer here and there.
I have years of experience in the IT field. Those in this field know that writing good documenation for end users is a must. I don't want to bore everyone with the technical things I can help with (php/sql/vB/etc).. I just want to help if I can
Hell I've got simple txt docs and things I've created from information from this site. The knowledge is here.. it's just a matter of organizing it in a way that even the most lazy noob WILL use.
Just last night I was trying to put together information on which shifter bushings fit best.. haven't had problems.. to determine if I wanted metal or poly. Of course I have my own idea's and opinions before reading about them.. but it took me around an hour to complete this task.
I really think this is a great idea.. and to be quite honest I haven't been able to follow the thread as well as I should... I have this problem with a lot of threads.. they become 50+ pages in a matter of hours which makes it tiresome to sort through.
I would like to help in any way that I can. I know a lot you gearheads have probably forgotten more about cars than I know... but I have been "playing" with dms's for several years and have some good things to offer here and there.
I have years of experience in the IT field. Those in this field know that writing good documenation for end users is a must. I don't want to bore everyone with the technical things I can help with (php/sql/vB/etc).. I just want to help if I can
we can make a squad to compile info... adn then only squad members can post or edit inside the vfaq!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by trinydex
it's called an faq, it's called an faq it's called an faq!!!!! LET'S MAKE A VFAQ FOR EVOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! C'MON!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we can make a squad to compile info... adn then only squad members can post or edit inside the vfaq!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we can make a squad to compile info... adn then only squad members can post or edit inside the vfaq!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by blonde; Nov 30, 2005 at 03:51 PM.
Originally Posted by Mark Sebby
I think he has a good point! There is not just one way of doing things!
this is coming outta nowhere but i have to somehow feel that this whole truth squad thing was conceived explicitly to check and balance these mindless followers of the vendors, people that just let hte vendors say whatever and then they say, OH YEAH YOU'RE KING, OH YEAH WE VALUE SO MUCH WHAT YOU'VE DONE FOR THE COMMUNITY, YOUR INTELLIGENCE IS GREATER THAN THAT OF ANYONE, YOUR PRODUCT IS WONDERFUL.
i'm biased... yeah i am from socal... in the end socalevo is my home. chances are... there's MORE bull on socalevo... you can't go through any threads without some of the "cool" guys blastin' at each other, you can't find any threads where people aren't making fun of goku racing in the dirt, you can't find a lotta things, but there's one thing i'm thankful that you CAN'T FIND FOR SURE.
you can't find tuning tech or roadrace coming on the threads and tryinna peddle ****, you can't find any of the vendors saying look at how great our product is, it's so great you gotta buy it, it's the only way!
we're all rre fanboys here in socal it's almost a prereq... but what we recommend is always objective, we just tell you to consult rre or get it done at rre. you ask about a bov... there's guys on socal that like 'em and guys that say stay stock. you ask about intakes, there's guys that have 'em and don't mind, and guys that say get a panel or stay stock. you ask about safc, we tell you how to tune it. you ask about flashes, we say well... if you gotta get one, here's the downsides and if it's only once, hey... might be for you. you ask about suspension... yeah we tell you to go ask john. in socal the community keep the vendors alive cuz their product and service speaks for itself.
people go to forums to get educated, it's dumb, but it's true, the internet is an EASY medium to get a lotta information be it useful or not. when we stop EDUCATING PEOPLE so they can make their own INFORMED DECISIONS (much to what warr is trying desperately to vie for) and we start PRESCRIBING products JUST CUZ i'm vendor a b c, then you're no longer building a community for information, you're building a community for consumerism. mindless consumers are a problem in america...
Ultimately the people who truely want to learn will learn.
I started turning the wrench on my own car less then 1 year ago, now I tune it myself, turn wrenches on it myself except for the larger projects.
That's not bad for knowing absolutely NOTHING about cars even in general. It proves a point, those who want to succeed will by any means.
I started turning the wrench on my own car less then 1 year ago, now I tune it myself, turn wrenches on it myself except for the larger projects.
That's not bad for knowing absolutely NOTHING about cars even in general. It proves a point, those who want to succeed will by any means.
but that's the thing, you need a resource right? and it'd be nice if this resource was much better now, especially since it has the capacity to be better and not the ****pile it's turning into.
Evolving Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
From: where the 2005 World Series Champions play
Originally Posted by timzcat
I think an EVO Techincal Discussion Forum may be the way to go.
All published technical articles would be at the top or stickied depending on format.
Specific rules for the forum would also be posted in the forum itself.
In addition to the regular rules, I would add the following:
1. No newbies allowed.
2. All posts must be of technical merit, any and all off-topic posts or unecessary posts will be deleted.
3. NO questions may be asked in this forum. This forum is for discussion of advanced topics or organization of information for the FAQ section.
4. Any thread or post that is not proper for the forum should be reported to the stuff and it will be deleted. The staff will not move threads in this forum, they will be deleted if they are not proper.
5. Vendors are strongly asked not to post in this forum unless they are providing important information to the topic that is completely unbiased and contains no information about thier product. Or is contrary to another vendors product. Any vendor post in this forum is subject to deletion at the request of any active member of this forum.
You guys get the idea. If we can come up with quality, strict rules for a forum such as this then I think we could get it created and it would be easy to moderate. It would all be up to the people who post in there to police the threads and report anything that is an issue so we can simply delete it.
It might also be a good idea to have a rule for post length, such as 25 word minimum. IF you only have 10 words to say then the post is not that important.
We should create a request thread in the forum for evolved members to request a topic for discussion instead of starting a thread.
Just some ideas for you guys.
All published technical articles would be at the top or stickied depending on format.
Specific rules for the forum would also be posted in the forum itself.
In addition to the regular rules, I would add the following:
1. No newbies allowed.
2. All posts must be of technical merit, any and all off-topic posts or unecessary posts will be deleted.
3. NO questions may be asked in this forum. This forum is for discussion of advanced topics or organization of information for the FAQ section.
4. Any thread or post that is not proper for the forum should be reported to the stuff and it will be deleted. The staff will not move threads in this forum, they will be deleted if they are not proper.
5. Vendors are strongly asked not to post in this forum unless they are providing important information to the topic that is completely unbiased and contains no information about thier product. Or is contrary to another vendors product. Any vendor post in this forum is subject to deletion at the request of any active member of this forum.
You guys get the idea. If we can come up with quality, strict rules for a forum such as this then I think we could get it created and it would be easy to moderate. It would all be up to the people who post in there to police the threads and report anything that is an issue so we can simply delete it.
It might also be a good idea to have a rule for post length, such as 25 word minimum. IF you only have 10 words to say then the post is not that important.
We should create a request thread in the forum for evolved members to request a topic for discussion instead of starting a thread.
Just some ideas for you guys.
i will take the truth squad as an alternative, but i try to follow what you all say anyway. so it won't matter much to me if your avatar is different.
no need to rip someone's english. i agree some go crazy with the sk33ts, but i am not going to copy and paste my post to spell check it. and i don't care about grammer untill it causes confusion either. i also see people rip on others from different countries. no need for that, read there locale first. besides, lack of reading skills is more prevalent on this site. good suggestions and one of the most professional threads on this site.
Originally Posted by zyounker
Not that i want to be involved in this.. Because i have almost stoped visiting this site because of the amount of misinformation. I have read MANY threads from vendors that contain a large amount of BS.. Alot of them are just as bad as the users.
One of the most fun ones i see is the fact that they say retuning a stock ECU or using a piggyback is exactly the same as a standalone. But they don't mention the resolution and intropolation of the standalone is vastly superior. Plus it adds MANY more features..
The best solution is always what your tuner or you are most capible of tuning but comparing just capabilities of the hardware a standalone is going to outperform ANY piggyback or reflash.
But people on this forum do not seem capable of just posting unbiased information. I posted the above as just one SMALL example.
What might be nice is a private section of the forum where you have to be invited to join as a safe haven for those who are tired of weeding through the BS.
Have fun either way,
-Zach
One of the most fun ones i see is the fact that they say retuning a stock ECU or using a piggyback is exactly the same as a standalone. But they don't mention the resolution and intropolation of the standalone is vastly superior. Plus it adds MANY more features..
The best solution is always what your tuner or you are most capible of tuning
but comparing just capabilities of the hardware a standalone is going to outperform ANY piggyback or reflash.But people on this forum do not seem capable of just posting unbiased information. I posted the above as just one SMALL example.
What might be nice is a private section of the forum where you have to be invited to join as a safe haven for those who are tired of weeding through the BS.
Have fun either way,
-Zach
OTOH, there are those who shout the praises of stand alone systems based on their versatility and powerful tools but fail to mention the extreme degree of difficulty and potentially horrible problems involved in using said stand alone EMS.... There are extremely good and valid reasons for not using a stand alone..... This is where the truth squad could prove extremely useful or just add to the confusion and lead more noobs astray....