I'm thinkin' a wiki would be sweet for something like this. Of course, only allow the right people to have editing access..

 

im in smoggie

 

So, I searched for this and found it. Wanted to know what the "Truth Squad" is all about. 16 pages I read, my darn eyes are burning, I guess I should have blinked.

I don't see it. First off the fact is the vendors pay for these forums and keep them open. It's a circle though, we pay to advertise to bring customers to our shops to keep us open. Without us the site doesn't exist but without customers we don't exist. Our company was growing at the same rate before EVO M though, so keep that in mind. I understand the benefits of the site for us, don't get me wrong. We draw the majority of our business from this site.

Drawing the majority of our business from this site brings me to something. You can do a search and try to prove me wrong if you like. I am quite sure I answer more questions and post more useful information than any other vendor on this site. There are some close runners for sure and maybe I only feel this way since I post it all over (general and engine as I sponsor those two) where others post them in their own forums. I did not want my own forum and still do not. 99% of my posts are about power anyway so I just post them in Engine/turbo/drivetrain. I do post things I am selling there too. Right or wrong I do it.

I feel I contribute a ton to this site. Let a moderator check and see how many PM's I answered this year. I am sure they can review it somehow. I answer questions from newbies all the time, other than a few dumb comments here and there (which I make too) I enjoy working with a newbie. I don't enjoy it to screw him out of thousands of dollars as some of you may think and constantly imply that is what vendors are trying to do. Some vendors YES, not us.

Many of you have bought parts from us. Not one of you will recall anyone at our shop trying to sell you anything you didn't NEED. Many of you will recall someone at our shop trying to tell you that you DIDN'T need something though.

I could just pay my advertising fees and have my own forum to just come on answer specific questions and sell my parts. I don't do that becuase my love of these cars (4g63's in general) run deeper than probably any of the rest of you guys. Most nights I don't even sleep all night as I am up thinking about how to improve something or make more powerful. I am non-stop with this stuff and have been for 16 years as of November of this year! It's a passion, it's my life.

We have 9 guys in our shop. There are 6 EVO's owned in our shop. I own THREE of them. One street, one drag and now a new Time Attack car. I could build anything, I could drive a Porsche, I don't want anything else. I am currently planning a 4g63 in a street rod and selling off 3 of my V8 cars.

I am offended to think that vendors that are honest and full of more information than any of you aren't allowed into these "truth" forums. It's rediculous.

To sit back, any of you, and say you aren't biased is BS. Each of you have parts on your car from one vendor or multiple vendors. Each of you have had a good experience with vendors or bad. This is going to sway what you say about topics. It has to, all of us are human and that is how we behave.

Two of the guys on this truth squad are currently seeking sponsorship from our shop. You don't think they are going to be biased?

One of you thinks the end all tuning device is the Exede, you aren't biased? Come on, get realistic.

There are a ton of great ideas here but to have a "Truth Squad" made up of guys that are far from what I would consider an expert level isn't going to get the entire truth told.

There is only one way to do this. You'd need an expert that couldn't care less about an EVO, never spent a dime on his car or ever got anything free or discounted, he could be on the "truth squad". Since this guy doesn't exist I'd suggest just trying to make EVO M better and get rid of the things that **** you off.

I think what pisses me off, to be honest, is the entire "Truth" thing. I consider myself to be one of the most honest people any of you will ever meet in your entire life. Not just as a vendor but as a man. I pride myself on this and raise my kids the same way. To exclude all vendors is fair as you couldn't just invite some but at the same time is a slap in the face of someone honest like myself.

I'm pissed so I am going to keep going off....

If a customer calls and asks us for our opinion on who's intercooler is better ____vs___, if I have experience with it I will give my opinion. If it's as good as ours that they are comparing it to I will admit it. If a customer sends me his AEM tune to review from another shop I won't just bad mouth it so I can retune him. If something is wrong I tell him, if it's a good tune I tell him that too. There are guys here that can surely vouch for that.

There are honest people and people only out for themselves that will lie, cheat, steal and manipulate you. Sort those bastards out and throw them off this site altogether. You will end up with more knowledge with less BS from the good people that are left.

I spend hours upon hours thinking up things to do and test. Look at my posts from this week alone and tell me the knowledge I shared on spool up on various turbos isn't useful. I didn't one time mention pricing (unless maybe I was asked) or try to sell something. I sell every GT series turbo out there and make an *** load more money selling a $3,000 turbo kit than I do a $800 rebuilt 20g. I don't recommend things becuase there is more profit in them. I give pros and cons of every part we sell and sell it on what works and is going to leave a customer happy. That's being honest and supplying good information.

In the short of things, this truth squad cannot be unbiased. Until they can I say they can't keep a vendor out of their topics without being "liars".

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

Well put Dave, as usual.

 

Dave, the intention was not to disparage vendors, especially those like yourself that the majority of us trust completely, but like you said...we can't very well include some vendors while excluding others.

Basically, the point is to just provide a better EvoM, because things have deteriorated lately. We prefer to provide good information that is as UNBIASED as possible. There is no way to completely remove bias...we understand that. Using me as an example, up until recently, I had no parts that would tie me with any vendor on EvoM, so I was almost completely unbiased when it comes to vendors in this community. Then, Al decided to sponsor me, which makes me an illegitimate source of Truth Squad information when it comes to tuning devices, specifically flashers. Recognizing this, I do not/will not provide input on Truth Squad tuning threads unless the topic is the S-AFC, which I have plenty of personal experience with.

Likewise, any other affiliations that I, or other self-proclaimed Truth Squad members, may garner over time would further remove our legitimacy due to an obvious increase in bias that is unavoidable. I think we all understand that and agree with what you said. I, for one, appreciate your constant support of the Evo and its owners, and even though I have never purchased a Buschur item nor requested advice/help, I've always pointed to Buschur Racing as a trusted Evo vendor with proven parts. I know there are some Evo owners who are aligned with other camps who do not agree, but that's what makes the Evo world go 'round I guess, and it's up to independent Evo enthusiasts to decide on their own by observing what you do for this community. That's how I based my opinion...not off parts you sold me or off help you provided me directly, but rather based it off the results from your parts and the manner in which you provide real-world testing that you share with all of us.

 

Without quoting Dave's whole post, I am with him. I fortunately have not spent 2 hours reading anything but the first and last page. From what I can tell, one of the first members already advertises sponsorship from two entities in his signature and is requesting sponsorship from Dave and has from I as well. How much truth can you expect from that type of member? 100%? I don't think so... If there is a free evo9-20g at stake (figurative example) would you endorse those parts? I know I would.

A little bit of honesty from The Truth Pack- Engineering.

 

So are you including the vendors now or still excluding them?

 

Me, personally? I'm not doing anything related to the inclusion or exclusion of vendors. I'm just providing information and answering as truthfully as I can whenever I know something. It's probably best if vendors do not provide input in a Truth Squad thread unless specifically requested so as to maintain some integrity. Likewise, if those like myself with sponsorships (or requesting sponsorships) are asked not to participate for the same reasons, then I can live with that. From the beginning, my only purpose was to help others. If because of my affiliations, my attempts to help are more of a detractor than a boon to the community, then I will be happy to refrain. It's much easier to put forth no effort than to put forth lots of effort.

 

Wow,

At first i thought it was a good idea, but looking at the intentions behind it, No way i will support this. I have dealt with alot of vendors on this board and their are a few that are standup guys.

Dave you can sponsor me 2 .

 

So is the truth squad going to vote on this matter rather than you posting your opinion only? Warrtalon, you have been a great poster on evom, and I look foward to reading something you have posted, and sometimes for just being entertained with you bluntness...but do you see DB's point as he is the official sponsor of this forum and therefore what he says trumps the truth squad?

 

LOL @ Truth Squad... Like Dave said no one on here is unbiased.

It seems every year or so some quote "evom elite club" forms, they last for a few weeks and then fade away.. much like this truth squad will.

 

Yes, I don't pretend to have any authority, and I fully respect what Dave says and chooses. I don't even care if there is an official group or any official rules. I ALSO didn't have anything to do with the formation of the group but was nominated/suggested/voted/whatever to be a major part of it by those who realized that Smogrunner's request was basically what I've been doing the whole time. I merely want to continue being as helpful as I can, whether that's as part of the Truth Squad or as part of nothing. Hopefully, Smogrunner and others who have begun to participate will chime in on this as well.

 

When this thread came around I went and got my Tinfoil hat on.

 

Qutoted by Al--My own idea is that there is not one "truth" to car modifications. There are many approaches. While I may not care for a certain product - that is just my idea. I think it adds value to the forums when all prospective appoarches can be presented and succeed or fail on their own merrits.
I agree with this!!

Truth is a strong word in my opinion. It (truth) should be based on facts.
I'll bet that there is not one person who has not lied on this site at some point in there life.

I think there should be a Performance modification forum which would have mods that have been proven to work (this may still not be the tell all of a certaint mod).

I feel if you read on this forum you can find some truth and honesty here. I am not going to name any of the Vendors/members. People need to research before they start throwing money in there car.

So I ask who's dyno is the most accurate- I will get a few answers in here for this question. If researched I could come to my opinion of who has the most accurate dyno.

So I ask- who has the best stroker kit? Again there will be may answers for this-And in the opinion of the answers will be just that opinions. So what is the truth? I guess you get what I am saying, if not oh well.

Also the idea of a trouble shooting forum would be nice- Vendors and members should be able to voice there opinion.

my 2 cents

 

Zoltan!!