New Club on Evom: Truth Squad
Originally Posted by Boltz.
I'd like to say something
With all this talk about making the site better, I think we could benefit from more moderators. Im not very sure a "truth squad" would the best way of going about these things. In theory it is a good idea but it will just start fights because everything 99% of the time biased. You might as well start an evo religion.
We basically need more "police" to get the "scum"(aka what we dont want, im not saying people are scum) off of the "street". Excuse my excessive use of quotations.
This site has grown quite greatly since I started reading here (which was when it first popped up). I think it would be good to have more people around to delete threads that add nothing to the community especially with their recent consistency to pop up.
I also don't blame the individual for coming on here and asking questions that have been covered. It is the way the system and the internet work, we should blame the system. To cure this we need to spend time so that our system is set up so that we have less spam. Either by making the topics we've beaten to death very easy for noobs to find or by limiting their access to ask these questions in technical or even semi technical forums
With all this talk about making the site better, I think we could benefit from more moderators. Im not very sure a "truth squad" would the best way of going about these things. In theory it is a good idea but it will just start fights because everything 99% of the time biased. You might as well start an evo religion.
We basically need more "police" to get the "scum"(aka what we dont want, im not saying people are scum) off of the "street". Excuse my excessive use of quotations.
This site has grown quite greatly since I started reading here (which was when it first popped up). I think it would be good to have more people around to delete threads that add nothing to the community especially with their recent consistency to pop up.
I also don't blame the individual for coming on here and asking questions that have been covered. It is the way the system and the internet work, we should blame the system. To cure this we need to spend time so that our system is set up so that we have less spam. Either by making the topics we've beaten to death very easy for noobs to find or by limiting their access to ask these questions in technical or even semi technical forums
For example it is my firm opinion that not one Mitsubishi design engineer has posted about how the ACD system actually works.... so you have a bunch of noobs (and I include myself in that catigory in this case) posting about the system when not a single one of us has two facts to rub together on the subject and you end up with 1638 threads filled with speculation, opinion, and Bull $hit about the system with ZERO factual information. If I do a google search on ACD it leads right back here because the weight of numbers is on the side of missinformation and BS now!
Keith
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Because it's not about me; it's about making a better EvoM. It also wasn't my idea, but I'm applying some of my ideas to the group.
People don't have to agree with us. The point is that we hopefully have a solid group of guys with a lot of knowledge who can provide fact-based, intelligent suggestions. I'm sure the squad members won't always agree on parts either, but that's not the point. The point is to help; not to rule with an iron fist.
No, of course they won't get ridiculed. People can buy whatever they want. We aren't here to force people; we are here to educate. What people do with that education is up to them.
People don't have to agree with us. The point is that we hopefully have a solid group of guys with a lot of knowledge who can provide fact-based, intelligent suggestions. I'm sure the squad members won't always agree on parts either, but that's not the point. The point is to help; not to rule with an iron fist.
No, of course they won't get ridiculed. People can buy whatever they want. We aren't here to force people; we are here to educate. What people do with that education is up to them.
they way i see this new squad is
good - for other evom members to make the correct decision based a few experienced truth squad members
bad - for vendors cause if the truth squad doesnt like their business or product , the vendor is sol
i understand that you want to better evom. but why cant you do it like you have been? instead of creating a club inside a club
Originally Posted by burningmoney97
squad members - your starting to bring a miliary format into a public website
they way i see this new squad is
good - for other evom members to make the correct decision based a few experienced truth squad members
bad - for vendors cause if the truth squad doesnt like their business or product , the vendor is sol
i understand that you want to better evom. but why cant you do it like you have been? instead of creating a club inside a club
they way i see this new squad is
good - for other evom members to make the correct decision based a few experienced truth squad members
bad - for vendors cause if the truth squad doesnt like their business or product , the vendor is sol
i understand that you want to better evom. but why cant you do it like you have been? instead of creating a club inside a club
I/we can't do it like we have been, because it's not working. Why are you opposed to a "club" or whatever it becomes. In the past, it's been individual effort. Team effort can accomplish more than the sum of its parts, and that's a powerful thing.
the truth squad could work i suppose, but i think u guys have already been part of the truth squad without even knowing. i have only had my car since May 05' so i guess i was a newbie. when searching i soon learned who was knowledgable and well informed, (warrtalon, Al, the buschur brothers, mike from TT) Obviously there are more, but these being some of the more vocal and on point.
i agree that maybe we dont need this truth squad because it will be too opinionated and i doubt u could get more then 5 people to agree on the same advice to 1 question. we just gotta take it easy on the newbs, knowing that we were once there!
i agree that maybe we dont need this truth squad because it will be too opinionated and i doubt u could get more then 5 people to agree on the same advice to 1 question. we just gotta take it easy on the newbs, knowing that we were once there!
I gotta give a quick hello to Warralton ( yes i miss spelled it on purpose 
), man you are always smack in the middle of some bullsh*t arguments... your great !!
To the people who are willing to join the truth squad i gotta ask, are you really ready for something as big as purposed ? What you are doing is awesome, and a big task. War was the first person to put his verbal boot in my @ss when i signed up for this website. I think instead of being sensored for his abrupt answers and kurt sense of humor he should be commended ( yes i said commended and no i am not a groupie ). I think this sight needs more "enforcers". It made me get off my @ss and look, cause i know that if i wanted to be respected in this "community" as a true enthusiast/tuner i would have to have a credible rep. and do my own homework not ask others. But what you guys are trying to do should be allowed. The conflict of intrest between the Mods and the vendors is to heavy to have a mod say that "this vendors product is crap", you guys are impartial enthusiasts who are willing to give your wealth of information. The job just sounds like a really big handfull. People will come from everywhere asking you questions that you will be obligated to give some kinda answer to. On top of that i would expect one of you ( cause honestly i am not knowldgable enough to answer ) T-squaders to imput on most subject, regardless of how dumb they are. If one of you were to say that the thread was crap... i wouldn't go any further reading. I would really appreciate the T-squad. Don't let newbs go through the trial and error of blowing an engine because they were dumb. If you really love the sport... further it. That would be by helping potential future enthusiast with credible information from reliable identified sources, not from "johnny on the spot to the next stop light". Being a regular member ,average joe, i think this site would benefit from these IDENTIFIED members, so i don't blow my money or engine taking advice about stuff from some schmuck on this site.
), man you are always smack in the middle of some bullsh*t arguments... your great !! To the people who are willing to join the truth squad i gotta ask, are you really ready for something as big as purposed ? What you are doing is awesome, and a big task. War was the first person to put his verbal boot in my @ss when i signed up for this website. I think instead of being sensored for his abrupt answers and kurt sense of humor he should be commended ( yes i said commended and no i am not a groupie ). I think this sight needs more "enforcers". It made me get off my @ss and look, cause i know that if i wanted to be respected in this "community" as a true enthusiast/tuner i would have to have a credible rep. and do my own homework not ask others. But what you guys are trying to do should be allowed. The conflict of intrest between the Mods and the vendors is to heavy to have a mod say that "this vendors product is crap", you guys are impartial enthusiasts who are willing to give your wealth of information. The job just sounds like a really big handfull. People will come from everywhere asking you questions that you will be obligated to give some kinda answer to. On top of that i would expect one of you ( cause honestly i am not knowldgable enough to answer ) T-squaders to imput on most subject, regardless of how dumb they are. If one of you were to say that the thread was crap... i wouldn't go any further reading. I would really appreciate the T-squad. Don't let newbs go through the trial and error of blowing an engine because they were dumb. If you really love the sport... further it. That would be by helping potential future enthusiast with credible information from reliable identified sources, not from "johnny on the spot to the next stop light". Being a regular member ,average joe, i think this site would benefit from these IDENTIFIED members, so i don't blow my money or engine taking advice about stuff from some schmuck on this site.
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
I/we can't do it like we have been, because it's not working.
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
I know you can't see all of the PMs and IMs I've received over the past year, but believe me when I say that I have saved many people from making poor decisions
There doesn't need to be a "posse patrol" of truth people when a new section just for the new people can be set up like I described a couple post above this one. Category's with subcategories of fact based threads.
Which is better a fact based section listing everything a new person would want to know including a basic list of mods OR a truth posse going around squashing every newb that thinks a bov gave them 15 hp. You can't be everywhere at once every time a new person post something ridiculous.
You can also have an open discussion section in the "information section" for people who want to ask or add information to the pot.
Last edited by EVOONYOASS; Nov 30, 2005 at 01:22 PM.
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Military format? Come on, now. I only said "squad members" because the name of the group is the "Truth Squad," therefore members would be "squad members" or maybe "Squad members." I'm not talking about a fire team.
I/we can't do it like we have been, because it's not working. Why are you opposed to a "club" or whatever it becomes. In the past, it's been individual effort. Team effort can accomplish more than the sum of its parts, and that's a powerful thing.
I/we can't do it like we have been, because it's not working. Why are you opposed to a "club" or whatever it becomes. In the past, it's been individual effort. Team effort can accomplish more than the sum of its parts, and that's a powerful thing.
this website is a business, not a personal site for such a noble cause.
your idea def helps out individual members but i can see negative effect toward how this website is currently run.
who makes the decision to allow this "truth squad" to happen? - neither you or i , but the owner/s of evom (whoever that may be)
Originally Posted by bacalhau16
the truth squad could work i suppose, but i think u guys have already been part of the truth squad without even knowing. i have only had my car since May 05' so i guess i was a newbie. when searching i soon learned who was knowledgable and well informed, (warrtalon, Al, the buschur brothers, mike from TT) Obviously there are more, but these being some of the more vocal and on point.
i agree that maybe we dont need this truth squad because it will be too opinionated and i doubt u could get more then 5 people to agree on the same advice to 1 question. we just gotta take it easy on the newbs, knowing that we were once there!
i agree that maybe we dont need this truth squad because it will be too opinionated and i doubt u could get more then 5 people to agree on the same advice to 1 question. we just gotta take it easy on the newbs, knowing that we were once there!
While many of these vendors - including myself - do work on promoting their business- much of what is writen may not have relationship to the vendor's product. The vendors are for the most part people who have made the work on cars a lifestyle and who mostly all work long hours to try and help the customers realize their automotive goals. In my experience - take it for what its worth - most useless crap mods purcahsed by new evo owners stem from vendors who do not participate in the discussions on these forums and for the most part are not even registered vendors.
Speaking for myself there are many situations where people post questions totally unrelated to my product and ask my opinion. I would like to think that I may have at times some data or info which can be of help in techical or racing subjects. People should take in all info given and evaulate it with reason.
My own idea is that there is not one "truth" to car modifications. There are many approaches. While I may not care for a certain product - that is just my idea. I think it adds value to the forums when all prospective appoarches can be presented and succeed or fail on their own merrits.
I find a healthy debate pepered with input from guru's, newbies, and professional vednors is often a great place for me to learn and always something I want to spend my valuable time reading.
Finally, these forums and my evo are a huge part of my own personal life. I was a evo owner and evo m member first and vendor second. Most of the guys I know who are vendors started the same way. I personally enjoy the evomutionm forums and commend the moderators and members here. I am proud to post comments here and I have little or no presense on any other forums. Just my two cents.
Originally Posted by EVOONYOASS
Sorry Warrtalon, but you say its not working and you also say you have saved countless number of people. Looks like the method you are using is already working. No need to use some "insert team name here" to keep helping people.
There doesn't need to be a "posse patrol" of truth people when a new section just for the new people can be set up like I described a couple post above this one. Category's with subcategories of fact based threads.
Which is better a fact based section listing everything a new person would want to know including a basic list of mods OR a truth posse going around squashing every newb that thinks a bov gave them 15 hp. You can't be everywhere at once every time a new person post something ridiculous.
You can also have an open discussion section in the "information section" for people who want to ask or add information to the pot.
There doesn't need to be a "posse patrol" of truth people when a new section just for the new people can be set up like I described a couple post above this one. Category's with subcategories of fact based threads.
Which is better a fact based section listing everything a new person would want to know including a basic list of mods OR a truth posse going around squashing every newb that thinks a bov gave them 15 hp. You can't be everywhere at once every time a new person post something ridiculous.
You can also have an open discussion section in the "information section" for people who want to ask or add information to the pot.
I would be fine, though, with the idea you propose. I'm not hell-bent on a squad/group/team or whatever, but I do want SOMETHING to happen. I'm open to your idea and the others that were presented. In the meantime, I'm going to do my thing, and I'm going to collaborate with others like Smogrunner, whether it's an official group or not.
Originally Posted by burningmoney97
my opposition stems from being a conservative person to change. evom seems to be doing just fine, and to me, i see only a small number of members that want this club inside a club to happen.
this website is a business, not a personal site for such a noble cause.
your idea def helps out individual members but i can see negative effect toward how this website is currently run.
who makes the decision to allow this "truth squad" to happen? - neither you or i , but the owner/s of evom (whoever that may be)
this website is a business, not a personal site for such a noble cause.
your idea def helps out individual members but i can see negative effect toward how this website is currently run.
who makes the decision to allow this "truth squad" to happen? - neither you or i , but the owner/s of evom (whoever that may be)
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
I would just like to add as an Evo owner very often the input of so called "vendors" who work daily in and out of evos all day is to me some of the most valuable info for myself. I really have enjoyed the posts of guys like Shiv, David Buschur and Mark from TT and other vendors who have taken time to participate in the forums. The view point of these people who really know what they are talking about is very valuable and I personally really LIKE the fact that you can have prominent well regarded tuners in the business on these forums answering tech questions and providing personal insights about things I would not otherwise learn about. If you dont't think you can learn from Shiv or David Buschur then I think you are wrong.
While many of these vendors - including myself - do work on promoting their business- much of what is writen may not have relationship to the vendor's product. The vendors are for the most part people who have made the work on cars a lifestyle and who mostly all work long hours to try and help the customers realize their automotive goals. In my experience - take it for what its worth - most useless crap mods purcahsed by new evo owners stem from vendors who do not participate in the discussions on these forums and for the most part are not even registered vendors.
Speaking for myself there are many situations where people post questions totally unrelated to my product and ask my opinion. I would like to think that I may have at times some data or info which can be of help in techical or racing subjects. People should take in all info given and evaulate it with reason.
My own idea is that there is not one "truth" to car modifications. There are many approaches. While I may not care for a certain product - that is just my idea. I think it adds value to the forums when all prospective appoarches can be presented and succeed or fail on their own merrits.
I find a healthy debate pepered with input from guru's, newbies, and professional vednors is often a great place for me to learn and always something I want to spend my valuable time reading.
Finally, these forums and my evo are a huge part of my own personal life. I was a evo owner and evo m member first and vendor second. Most of the guys I know who are vendors started the same way. I personally enjoy the evomutionm forums and commend the moderators and members here. I am proud to post comments here and I have little or no presense on any other forums. Just my two cents.
While many of these vendors - including myself - do work on promoting their business- much of what is writen may not have relationship to the vendor's product. The vendors are for the most part people who have made the work on cars a lifestyle and who mostly all work long hours to try and help the customers realize their automotive goals. In my experience - take it for what its worth - most useless crap mods purcahsed by new evo owners stem from vendors who do not participate in the discussions on these forums and for the most part are not even registered vendors.
Speaking for myself there are many situations where people post questions totally unrelated to my product and ask my opinion. I would like to think that I may have at times some data or info which can be of help in techical or racing subjects. People should take in all info given and evaulate it with reason.
My own idea is that there is not one "truth" to car modifications. There are many approaches. While I may not care for a certain product - that is just my idea. I think it adds value to the forums when all prospective appoarches can be presented and succeed or fail on their own merrits.
I find a healthy debate pepered with input from guru's, newbies, and professional vednors is often a great place for me to learn and always something I want to spend my valuable time reading.
Finally, these forums and my evo are a huge part of my own personal life. I was a evo owner and evo m member first and vendor second. Most of the guys I know who are vendors started the same way. I personally enjoy the evomutionm forums and commend the moderators and members here. I am proud to post comments here and I have little or no presense on any other forums. Just my two cents.
Terry S
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
I would just like to add as an Evo owner very often the input of so called "vendors" who work daily in and out of evos all day is to me some of the most valuable info for myself.
Not that i want to be involved in this.. Because i have almost stoped visiting this site because of the amount of misinformation. I have read MANY threads from vendors that contain a large amount of BS.. Alot of them are just as bad as the users.
One of the most fun ones i see is the fact that they say retuning a stock ECU or using a piggyback is exactly the same as a standalone. But they don't mention the resolution and intropolation of the standalone is vastly superior. Plus it adds MANY more features..
The best solution is always what your tuner or you are most capible of tuning
but comparing just capabilities of the hardware a standalone is going to outperform ANY piggyback or reflash.But people on this forum do not seem capable of just posting unbiased information. I posted the above as just one SMALL example.
What might be nice is a private section of the forum where you have to be invited to join as a safe haven for those who are tired of weeding through the BS.
Have fun either way,
-Zach
only if there comments can be backed by the truth..
Originally Posted by burningmoney97
why not just change the name to "Warrtalon Squad"
and what happens if someone doesnt agree with the truth squad? Are their opinions useless unless part of the club?
and if someone buys a part that the truth squad doesnt recommend. are they going to be ridiculed for their purchase?
and what happens if someone doesnt agree with the truth squad? Are their opinions useless unless part of the club?
and if someone buys a part that the truth squad doesnt recommend. are they going to be ridiculed for their purchase?
Originally Posted by Fourdoor
If we as moderators deleted every thread that did not have useful information the board would have about 5 threads left, trafic would drop to zero because of the horrible **** evom moderators, the vendors would all leave, revenue would drop to negative income, and the board would shut down.
For example it is my firm opinion that not one Mitsubishi design engineer has posted about how the ACD system actually works.... so you have a bunch of noobs (and I include myself in that catigory in this case) posting about the system when not a single one of us has two facts to rub together on the subject and you end up with 1638 threads filled with speculation, opinion, and Bull $hit about the system with ZERO factual information. If I do a google search on ACD it leads right back here because the weight of numbers is on the side of missinformation and BS now!
Keith
For example it is my firm opinion that not one Mitsubishi design engineer has posted about how the ACD system actually works.... so you have a bunch of noobs (and I include myself in that catigory in this case) posting about the system when not a single one of us has two facts to rub together on the subject and you end up with 1638 threads filled with speculation, opinion, and Bull $hit about the system with ZERO factual information. If I do a google search on ACD it leads right back here because the weight of numbers is on the side of missinformation and BS now!
Keith
The threads I am talking about deleting are the ones where someone asks a silly question, wartalon flames them, then people join in on the flaming and rejoice about wartalon. The threads that need to be deleted are quite obvious. Im not talking about deleting everything that doesn't have track and dyno evidence proving which part works best.
What we need is for it to be against the rules to tell someone to search. It should be apparent that we want noobs to do some searching for their answer. If no one responded to the questions that were already "beaten to death" then they would just find themselves on page 2+ and out of our lives.
I also always get linked backed to EVOM when I leave EVOM looking for some info. Its rediculous. You even agree yourself that there are tons of useless threads that have nothing more than speculation filling the archives....
Im a busy man, and I've added my 2 cents, I hope something useful comes out of this thread...
