^ whoa...

 

Not to be too nit picky or off topic but do a little more research. Yes a republic is a partial democracy but it differs in one aspect and that is that we have a constitution. Read some Aristotle and his differing philosophy regarding republics and democracies... that's where most of the founding fathers gathered their thoughts and ideas from.

A constitutional republic (which is what America is) as defined per John Adams: "a government of laws, and not of men." There's been a huge disinformation push to get everyone to think America is a democracy so that the constitution can be thrown out or at least rewritten. In a democracy there is no need for a constitution. Think of the implications regarding that... no more rights for the people and here comes tyranny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic

"Constitutional republics are a deliberate attempt to diminish the perceived threat of majoritarianism, thereby protecting dissenting individuals and minority groups from the "tyranny of the majority" by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population.[2] The power of the majority of the people is checked by limiting that power to electing representatives who are required to legislate with limits of overarching constitutional law which a simple majority cannot modify."


Agree with you 100% on this aspect. And I also agree that the potential is there utilizing electric motors. My only concern is that at this current moment in time the technology is not adequately developed and the costs are going to be extreme considering what the EVO is intended to be. Just my 2 cents.

 

awesome post ,, off topic but awesome.

 

Yeah lol. I just realized how off topic we were getting with our back and forth rants on politics sorry about that. Just had to clarify things.

 

have to disagree. the 10 was the evo that 8/9 track guys *thought* they wouldn't want, back in '08. then, in '09, AMS tore everyone up in a first year production car in their first year of campaign. no small feat to begin with, even more impressive when you consider that competitors brought years of collective knowledge and experience with the CT9A to the same venues and still got beat.

finally including AYC is also significant. though a small segment of enthusiast evo guys actually cared, i'm still thrilled that a US model evo finally has AYC.

for the wider evo market, the chief complaints/ recommendations for improvement included a more upscale interior and a more mature exterior. mitsubishi addressed those with the 10. that's important because it shows that mitsubishi did indeed listen to what customers wanted.

so it's hard to argue that the 10 was a car no evo enthusiast wanted. it's faster on track, it has upgrades which may mean little to you and i but did pay attention to the desires of many.


maybe i'm missing something, but i really don't care if it's a hybrid. it doesn't inherently make the evo 11 undesirable. a hybrid drivetrain can be implemented in a very unsexy way, and that is a real risk for sure. (mitsubishi, you do have a long way to go to make a hybrid drivetrain sound appealing, i must admit) however, many thought that a slightly more upmarket interior in the X signaled that it would be the worst evo ever, and there's an abundance of evidence to the contrary.

 

Again I have to agree. The only downfall with the EvoX is the economy. It has nothing to do with what Mitsu put out there. The car is gorgeous and it performs.

 

Well I must admit, hearing the evo is going to be a Hybrid makes me cringe. The evo has always been a raw, go fast car with all other things being secondary. Even though some of that has been lost in the X it is still the general idea. I understand Mitsu wanting to be part of the hybrid market and putting out a good name for themselves. I do not believe the evo is the car to do it with. The evo was never meant to be a gas sipping, luxury car. I dont think anyone has bought an evo to save on gas and enjoy the nice interior.

Hybrid technology seems like a bit of a gimik to me. Yes some electric power can be recovered, sure youll burn less gas, and yes you'll spend less money on gas. I am not an expert, but I believe the benifits of hybrids are over stated. If you plug your car in, that money you are saving on gas is now on your electric bill, the emmissions your not putting out your tail pipe are now coming out the power plants exhaust, and doesn't the added weight of the electric system reduce the effectiveness of the power recovery.

I dont mean to sound like such a pesimist. If we have a renewable, clean, economical sorce for electric by all means hybrid technology is the way to go. I just believe there is a time and place and Im not sure now is the time and the evo is the place.

 

<grin> Stick around the forum for a while and note the general consensus stemming from folks who actually buy these cars. Go back a few years, as well, and see just how many were interested in purchasing a X before its release. My comment wasn't generated in a vacuum. Feedback on the reptilian level and street cred sells Evos. The current Evo has neither and at this rate it won't anytime soon.

There isn't a whole lot of elasticity in the market segment. Folks have made tremendous personal sacrifices to buy Evos - very high payments, ridiculous insurance rates - and they're still making them today standing in line to buy prime CT9As. Mitsu can hardly give the X away, even when a brand new car can be had for almost the same as a 4 year old IX.

 

EVO XI = No thanks

 

Regarding exceptionalism- Of course you know this, but CAFE standards do not mean that every single car must return a certain fuel economy rating, but that a fleet should conform to a set average. It is a bit off base for you to come to that conclusion from what I said.

As far as the environmental mindset (and the now government controlled GM), I worded it that way to not get too political in a technical thread, but that can of worms is open now. Its pretty obvious we view these things 180 degrees differently. Obama Motors has not been dictated to turn the Corvette into an green machine (yet), because the LSx halo burns bright enough for the entire brand, while returning shockingly good fuel economy for an engine of its size.

The Evo X could easily get 32mpg if Mitsubishi would make smaller, less costly changes. Direct injection and a six speed manual with a tall top gear would be a wonderful start down that road.

The IX you and most enthusiasts love more than the X is a great indication that Mitsubishi has lost their way with the CZ4A, but this new hybrid car will make those mistakes look like nothing. I can understand pushing toward the future with hybrids, but for goodness sake they can leave their one real performance car 100% petrol if GM can. Particularly when they can't afford to be taking this risk.

 

" Feedback on the reptilian level and street cred sells Evos. The current Evo has neither and at this rate it won't anytime soon."
oh boy...


Yeah , you should go back too , how many was interested about teh IX when they announced the MIVEC on it, and how many was interested to buy it... And that was even a minor change ...

You will always find a YAY sayers... who think they now better. But the Evolution again and again proved them wrong.

Too bad this side of the world didnt get a CN9A and earlier versions... those guys thought a same about the CP9A... than they thought the CT9A is end of the evolution , no more evos etc...

About hardly give away comment is pure economical problem. When major US car manufacturers going down the drain and they gave they car away for pennies, the evo is still selling.The evo is not a must car like the Honda civic for example. And the first the people willing to let go is the hobbies.
There is a success for the Evo X. How many german car owner or other car owner was look into the VIII or the IX instead of the own quality brand?
The X definitely gained respect and stolen drivers from the germans and so.

in that sentence when you mentioned your IX cost as a same as the X is just not true. The brand new X is cost more then a Used IX... i dont see why egven a question is that. When you go for used to used then you r IX probably cost as a ame as the VI or the VII or the V

So it is a EVo tradition , they not really loose so much value. Besides that it is just a silly comment , i think

No hard feeling s Rob

 

evo 8 and 9



The last true evo. 4g ftw.

 

there is another thread for that, i think you lost here
it is amusing how the same 5-6 people coming to this type of threads and some how and very soon turns into the CT9A vs CZ4A arguments...
Reminds me the school fights between girls. Like who has a nicer Barbie

 

I don't think you understand. Drop the jargon into Google.

You're agreeing with me. The change to MIVEC was borne-out and the market responded accordingly. Similarly, the market responded negatively to the next generation.

I edited my original comment, as I misunderstood yours. Sorry about that.

At the risk of sounding even more pretentious than usual, if you read my original posts about the X's positioning and its impact on the marque from 3 years, you'll note many similarities to its current situation. I certainly can't claim to read the future and I'm more than comfortable staying with my own assessment.

...the market has spoken.

You just described one of the reasons why Evo sales lack elasticity. Everything you said is true. There are always a number of folks willing to make certain sacrifices for something of more importance. Evos are selling; Xs are not. Traditionally, Mitsu sold ~4K cars a year in the USDM. Those numbers even came true in '07.

It just doesn't matter.

Sorry, you've never seen new Xs (after rebates/discounts) selling for almost the same as prime IXs? I know how much time you spend here and I find it hard to believe.

None here, either.

 

I like the speculation of the Evo XI being rear-wheel driven with the ability to have an Electric motor move the front wheels which in turn will make it AWD again (presumably by the flick of a button or an always-on option?) all that while getting rid of Turbo lag! (no turbo, all-electric boost!?)

The only thing would concern anyone is the added weight. All that technology, and the whole electric motor I can't help but think the Evo will pass the 4,000 pounds mark... :-/

But hey, Godzilla is 4,000 pounds and it does miracles... I think we should have some faith

Seriously people, I don't think Mitsu ever fails on an Evo reincarnation. And I agree the economy had much to do with Evo sales tanking...