thats pretty much what I meant, use knock sum and definetly use the knock voltage thats how I weeded out my false knocks

not jacked up but you have alot of -10 areas there was too much timing pulled

im using the stock evo 8 knock mulitplier and it seems to be working just fine

 

Stock 8 sensor settings show more knock down low, and less up top from what i can tell. Also, are your knock thresholds for load set at 159.6 or whatever, in the less than 2500 range steven? That's default for the evo, so you would probably never see any knock in that range.

Oh, and those -10s...he's never going to hit that range, of like 250 load or whatever on current settings. If he upped injectors, and then got an evo MAF or used speed density to increase the load calced throughout, then yeah, but until then, you can probably safely just tune less than 180 load...and if you hit 180 load, on stock injectors, you should upgrade them, because around there you are doing more than 8psi and your injector duty cycle is like....130%

 

Yeah, you need a smooth transition into timing. If not, that will cause knock also.

lol what? Knock control is still something Im trying to understand fully. Here is the thing. Ok, now that I am looking for pings over 1.0 or 3 counts. looking at some of my early logs then those may have not been real counts.

Hornstar, Im not quite sure what you mean by knock sensor multiplier with 18 throughout. When I look at my multiplier I see 4608 units. I take that as a data endian big.

But when I try to look in up in the scalings manager to change to little it its not there. Same for Knock adder single and triple. Those are just 768 and 1280. Before I start messing with those shouldnt they be in a more manageable number?

Since maybe that wasnt real knock I was seeing Im thinking about starting over. Should I set my knock loads starting around 80? Theyre at 50 throughout the rpm range now.


That is what it was when first flashed this ROM so I havent even made it there yet. Also in the materials I picked up from, it was said in those crazy high loads it might be a good idea to retard like that in case a MBC breaks or over boost happens you dont explode your engine for loads you werent ready for. I feel Id rather have the engine retard than keep trying to push and detonate.

 

Agreed on -10 timing, no harm for a broken wastegate tubing or something

As far as knock sensors, if it's the auto tephra rom, it comes with the right settings. If it's the evo tephra rom, the evo settings come in it.

Lancer uses:
low, mid, high multipliers 18
low gain =3
high gain =5 (or whatever it's called)

Evo uses
Low mult = 13
mid mult = 18
high mult = 20
low gain = 2
high gain = 7

those number all factor into the knockadc (current engine noise) and knockbase (acceptable engine noise), which uses knock volts to calculate them. So, if adc bounces above base, it registers some knock sum, but it usually happens so fast you can't hardly see it in the logs.

I don't know the thresholds where it goes from low mult to mid to high, or the low and high gains....but what I do know, the higher the mult is, the less sensitive the knock sensor is. If you watch knockadc and base, you can see that there is a point where they increase, increase, increase, and then both all of the sudden drop to about half what they were. That's where the mutliplier switches i think, can't remember what it was though. Still, should be using our settings i think, not the evos. Also, those crazy high numbers have to be a scaling issue i think.


Oh, and don't spend too much time on low load knock. From what I can tell, knock sensors aren't really accurate at detecting idle or cruise knock in most cases...don't just blindly ignore them i mean. Still, if you aren't actually hearing pinging from the engine, it's probably ohkay if you are near everyone elses timing in their maps, or stock timing.

 

Ok, good info. Thanks for the advice. About the 11 afr while in boost. Do I want that the moments I go into it or shoot for that at WOT heavy load with the afrs going down as I hit my max load?

 

+1 on that^^^

 

I have mine set to 12 and as boost climbs as well as rpms I have it taper to 11.5 the whole way

 

WWhen you smash the pedal down, the sideband should pretty instantly go to whatever you tune for (12 in Steven's case). If it dips really rich or goes real lean, that can be accel enrich settings, but those are mildly standard, so just make sure you have the base lancer numbers in there.

 

So its acceptable for it to transition from 14.7s to 12s and 11s just like that under proper load?

 

Yup, even 12.8 or so until you are at 1psi imo ...which is called lean spool, and egos do it by default. Most disable that option and just tune how they like it.

 

Interesting. I might do a flash tomorrow to put those AFRs down low. I have a long stretch of road now to get trims fast.

Youre a big help Hornstar. Another question for you. Sometimes after cranks and I go to accelerate (not hard but just to go) my afrs start to go lean around the 17s then if i ease up or insist she moves theyll richen back up to 14's. Thats the accel enrich? How do I combat that?

 

I did not know about adjusting the accel enrichments that's probably why I get knock when shifting and starting back down the map. For example I'm running 11.5 when you shift the wideband reads nothing but when I accel it reads back stoich then 12 but it starts at 12 a little late in boost, plus I'm running evo 8 accel enrichments

 

To get fuel trims right, my favorite thing to do is take them out of the equation, fix everything, then put them back in the equation feeling good. Do do this, set the "open loop loads" to 10 all the way through out, and you'll see a lot more realistic numbers. The 02 isn't compensating, and adding or subtracting fuel. This makes it really easy to spot problems like, the MAF not reading down low enough, or the AFR's being off at 2000 rpm one way, but totally off the other way at 3000.

The real point, is instead of letting the engine squirt how much fuel it wants, then constantly adjust, you are just letting ti do the first part. So, if I have an issue with accel enrichment....if i force the car into open loop, I can see that as I push the pedal down, it dips rich....so I know I can adjust that, make a change, try again, and see definitively if the change was good or bad. Even with fuel trims, you can't see that sort of change with accuracy in closed loop, because some other driving habit or problem can throw them off the other direction. scaling injectors....sure, you can LTFT that....flashing an entirely new rom to a car that it wasn't even intended for? might ought to go forced open loop.

Well....after you just said "you are a big help", I hate to answer like this....but I had the same issue and went speed density. When I was on an incline, or when I had the A/C on, if I started from a dead stop, I would see AFR's climb up pretty high, sometimes above 18. Like you said, if you just give it more gas, once you're moving, it's fine. I lived with that for a while, and then I swapped to an Evo MAF. That resolved the issue we are talking about, but brought another issue into play. The MAF I got had the honeycomb ripped out, so it didn't see to read the right amount of air at idle (giving me that "pum" I've heard some of you talk about). I went Speed Density last Friday, and I don't see any issues yet, except the need to entirely retune, which is where I will be today.

What that idle lean thing could be though...
Async Accel vsRPM , right under the other 3 or 4 enrichment tables. The reason I say that, is that it has all 0's in our problem area. I'd try putting a couple in each of those 1k and 1.5k columns, and just see if it has a positive impact. Let me know how that works, or if it's totally wrong.

*Edit* - another thing I do, is edit the stock base rom xml file, using data from the auto tephra rom RS made, and view the stock settings on stuff, and compare that to the tephra evo rom stuff, and that gives me a good idea if something is way off. Because I'm working on tuning today as well, I've been doing that for some of the accel stuff, and there are a crap ton of values in there....just all sorts of stuff, and RS didn't define them on the auto rom I don't think, so it's going to be difficult to compare any of that to a stock lancer rom.

 

Ok, Ill try that. Im ready to get this thing going. I can puch a little boost with no problems so Im ok for the moment. But now I ran into some other other things. When I went to flash that last edit I happened to check my CEL because it was that annoying bank 1 too lean that everyone loves but now Im throwing O2 sensor 1 no activity.

That new one has me bugged out. I when I extended I made sure I cut after the harness, I soldered all the wires, and heat shrinked and taped the wires down. I dont understand how this one may be throwing the signal. It was replaced just a year or two ago.

And now my down pipe is ratteling against my oil pan just out the blue. I dont exactly have the means to fix that at the moment since I just moved. I have to wait until next week when I go home. Its kind of bad because I can feel it and sometimes it sounds like a damn wind up clock.

The last time I logged with the updated fuel map and went to log it never really went rich while going into boost. That could possibly be from the ECU refering to the leaner low octane fuel maps or maybe the front O2 code. Ill put it in forced open loop to see what happens.

 

hmmm after the harness? By that do you mean u extended the harness on the female side? because thats where i did mine and its fine.

aslo what rom are you running i started out with one from hornstar and it was very safe. if you are running stock injectors and stock maf u should give it a go.