i think a while back boe mentioned a rumour of RRM releasing tuning software for the piggy's. perhaps it is a necessity now cause of the pistons

regardless, sometimes good things come from bad situations

 

Good insight Bahamut!


ROAD/RACE

 

just our of curiosity rock, how does the piggy hook up to a PC to be programmed? USB? Serial? just curious. thanks.

-Justin

 

http://www.dsm.org/regionals/regionals.epl

Here's a list. Find a local chapter near you.

You must also provide them a service manual to guide them along the way. Some DSM'ers may have a family or not, and they are probably willing to do it as a side project/hobby.

Don't drop your car off and say "see ya later" on the install . . . they'll probably charge you a hefty price. If you and a friend are willing to help the DSM'er on the install, he/she will probably cut you a price break. This is the general "golden rule" amongst garage mechanics and a learning process.

BTW: some links may be dead. Don't know if they were ever updated. A lot of years have passed since 99.

BTW II: Since you're in the NW, try the cali dsm crew. They may have friends up your area. If not, try the BC, Canada group, they may have friends in the US.

BTW III: like all things in life, you have to trust the DSM mechanic. There are shady people amongst us too . Good luck and good hunting.

 

OK, sorry for being harsh.

Rob, after talking to my dad about it, I have a question - is it more "my car won't run" or is it more "RRM is worried I'll blow it up?" Like, is this a serious problem or just RRM covering their ***?

In any case, here's a present for ya.











PS - that's a stock 4G94 piston shown to compare in the last picture...

 

I would think since the stock ecu is already running the car kind of rich that you would be okay. But i personally would be more worried if i had the pb b/c it leans the cars fuel curve out. Anyways im sure he will clear this up. And dj if you decide you want out of those pistons let me know maybe we can work something out like the dp and cat.

 

Sounds like RRM will have a lot of questions to answer. It sux, I hope pistons will work out.

 

thats what I was asking, what will being too lean do? I need to have a car that runs descently and won't be down for more than a few days getting stuff installed. Hopefully everything will work out good though and maybe we will get some other good out of this which will help us gain even more from these pistons.

-Justin

 

If timing is off, you can get detonation. I'm sure you know what that does.

Even without that, a car that runs lean, runs hot. Parts can melt under high enough temperatures.

Rob - here's what we need. Make a post, and explain what you think will happen when these are installed and what you think can be done. Most of the piston buyers are n00bs, so we know precious little about tuning, timing, etc. So we just know the vague things people tell us. If you could, please just give as much info as possible right now.

 

thats what im thinking about when he says running lean.

 

Running a bit lean via NA should not be a main concern. It takes a lot of abuse and neglect from NA to lean out so bad to toast a motor. Since the 80's, I have never heard of any NA motor died from lean condition. Well, I never really encountered one, except for a very old car with faulty injectors and erratic spray pattern to cause white ash-like substance on the spark plugs. Then again, the motor did died from rodbearing problem, because the owner never replaced oil within the chevette.

NOS toasts motors, because the owner refuses to add more fuel. For higher CR, your ecu will compensate as long as you don't need race fuel every dang time. If you're not knocking on the top side, you should be okay. From my experience, cali emission standards are VERY hard to defeat.

AT worse, your ecu dumps your car to limp mode and add tons of fuel to correct itself. That in itself will eventually burn up your valve and valve seals.

 

i've batted this around a few times... if you have a piggy take it off and put just the pistons in with stock ecu. dyno it and see where things are. driving wise the computer WILL relearn the higher compression just fine. will it throw a code i don't know yet but it shouldn't.

In open loop, fool throttle, you will be running off of a predefined map that should have enough fuel in it when stock(ie: no piggy back). But this needs to be verified with a dyno. if the dyno shows your still rich try the piggy. if your just right then no piggy needed. if your lean let rrm know as they can provide you with the next step in your tuning evolution. This is a new venue for RRM and the lancer community. the few who have the pistons and can provide the info back will guide RRM further.

Agian... your car will be fine and driveable under 3/4 throttle since you'll be in closed loop. the only area of concern will be open loop/full throttle conditions. Keep us posted guys and RRM/myself will be there for answers/cheers.

 

Bahamut and BOe are right. ECU will compensate for most of it. You will need to run 91 octane or better fuel to. That should eliminate detonation issues. Reagardless, I have figured out a couple of fixes for you guys. If you do not have Piggy we will introduce a fuel controller for under $200 that will work similar to an SAFC. You will be able to richen things up a bit that way. Problem solved before there ever was a problem!!! If there is a problem.


ROAD/RACE

 

Boe

"Keep us posted" is not a good response for the guys who put deposits down on something made out to seem like drop in pistons. Basically RRM is taking the "sell it to the customer and let them help out our R&D" stance at this point. Everything you all have said is hypothesis to this point and no one knows for sure what is going to happen. I would have thought that RRM would have known what compression was safe before going to the 10.5-1 or what ever it is.

You guys seem to be dropping the ball on this one.

WADAD

EDIT :This was in response to the above post by Boe , but I see Rock has posted in. It still seems unfair that someone should have to spend an extra $200 after the fact to make this stuff work.

 

It is safe based on mathematical calculations. I am a bit insulted. We do more than anyone for lancer guys and development of performance products. We can not do it all. Everyone will have various combinations including cam etc... I am not stupid enough to just say we know it all but we know more than most. That is why we are discussing the POSSIBILITY of a lean condition and have taken steps to solve POTENTIAL issues guys may have. Otherwise it is the customer who has to put forth some efforts to tune their car. Example, AFC is a dangerous device. You can blow your engine up and it would not be APEXi fault. Pistons are a major mod. Do not take it lightly and do not expect it to be a bolt on like a CAI. Seems like we are not dropping the ball but we cannot juggle everyone's ***** for them!


ROAD/RACE