Funny

Atleast you have great sense of humor

WADAD

 

Smart, funny and good looking!



ROAD/RACE

 

ROCK is exactly on the money with that... you can't expect RRM to meet a demand on something and fully test everything out. They have a lightened flywheel and everyone wants numbers.

The facts of lightened flywheels has been around for decades... so have the facts of higher compression pistons. With todays ecu's and OBD-II standards there is a lot of play with regards to higher compression pistons. About 20%ecu adaptability and about 15% over compensation in open loop.

I know you know this WADAD... there is no ball dropping just number crunching and scientific backing based on todays technoligies/understandings. In the end the reality of the situation will be close to if not perfectly achieved as expected.

In light of a lean conditions measures have already been investigated. Unfortunately we won't know until a real world application is tested. All ROCK ever asked is if people wanted them. He stated they'd be drop in stock replacements... meaning no machining needed. He never said anything about tuning. He did however ensure not to get to high in compression as that would definatly require tuning. These mathematically should not.

 

In future you should have a disclaimer then whenever you offer a product you have not tested or just a general one for the difference in mods that might cause dangerous conditions.

When this thread started it sounded like a breeze install. (professional mechanic) Then off you go and enjoy the performance of your pistons. RRM is great at marketing and creating demand for things. The after shocks are not always welcome, like this one.

WADAD

 

And you are correct. I KNOW FIRST hand that the differences in mods can have adverse effect on performance. That was something I would have liked to have known going in. It would have saved me quite a bit of money that I could have used for something known to be speed enhancing.

WADAD

 

I am glad you guys are going to help, I would just prefer someone to atleast get these things installed and let RRM see them such as you boe since you were to get a pair aswell. I am not doubting that they are a wonderful product, I just need some reassurance that they will not kill my car lol. Let us know more about the fuel management asap and ill look into it when i get a bit more money.

-Justin

 

pretty much agree with that. with RRM catering to people of different experience background, i guess it's pretty hard to deliver the more involved parts to people who know what's implied to install them, but it's probably knowing whats involved that makes those people reluctant to step forward and those who don't know more willing to jump in.

 

RRM never stated it was a tested product... they just asked if people wanted them. They said yes so RRM provided.

The dealership will sell you a car and never tell you how much your insurance will cost, oil changes, tires, brakes, etc... those things are just known by people purchasing the cars.

The same goes for high compression pistons. They are sold as is and they do what they claim to do(raise compression). If there are some after costs that is not the problem of RRM's really as they never advertised anything more than what they were and what they "did do."

In truth i've seen lancer NA heads decked and worked to compressions of around 10:1... all worked great. One person had his own adjustable fuel regulator on the car.

In the end if you modify the headers/exhaust/cats/tb/intake man./intake itself/etc... you should expect the need for some tuning. While these mods show great results on a stock setup it wasn't until the piggy back and reflashes that full advantage could be had. Should RRM have stated that when selling those products?

In the end i forsee no problems and i know ROCK has worked on contingencies just in case. If things do occure i can tell you that before another set is sold there will be warnings and or write-ups stating what to do. For now only one batch of pistons sold and only a few are out. These will be the start-up practice and if any issues arise RRM will be there to support the customers 100% as always.

 

i haven't gotten mine yet... i'm actually a little short right now. I will soon though.

Everone should know that these will not destroy the car in any way. There is plenty of room for the pistons in the car. RRM made sure of that by providing stock bottom end and head to the manufacturer. They are mechanically sound its just the ecu's setup that is a concern.

It will drive fine we know that and there will be no driveability issues at all. The only problem will occure at full throttle. This is why people are encouraged to dyno the car after breakin to ensure proper afr's. This means removing piggy backs also. Just to be safe. In most cases this small of a jump netted an increase of almost 20hp and no change in afr's. That testing was from NA eclipses and neons and mirages. That is why RRM even offered the pistons. Their success and ease of install was well documented in other cars similiar to the lancer.

 

would it be safe to run say a stg 1 or 2 rpw cam and these pistons?

 

That was something i asked and i was told that it's the same vlv clearance as stock... basically the reliefs they put into the pistons keep the stock vlv clearance so if the cams worked on stock pistons they will work with these.

Is that right ROCK?

 

Common sense would tell you that a cam that works with stock pistons will work with these pistons. Guess rhyzin is right. A lot of people wanted N/A pistons. I started the thread casue of all the emails I got on n/a psitons. They thought they wanted them. They prolly should have just gone turbo if they did not understand what was involved. We have done a diligent job in designing the pistons and getting them made. However, we never thought to get rich on these. Very few people will buy them. I may not even put them on the website. If I have them I have them. We spend the bulk of our R&D on Turbo stuff cause even though it is more money, we can make double the h.p. compared to stock on pump gas and never even pull the valve cover off the engine!

Apexi put a disclaimer on an SAFC so I guess it is implied that you should be prepared to swap pistons when you buy pistons. Huh.

ROAD/RACE

 

this is what i wanted to know... i didnt want to get these if i end up have to pay extra to have them tuned perfectly so they dont hit the vlvs and what not. That is if i decide to stay n/a, which never is forsure anymore

 

Personally, I'm not worried. The ecu should compensate, unless knocking on the upper part of the motor.


What I don't get how the ITR gets away with its super high CR from stock to aftermarket.

http://www.superhonda.com/tech/DC2Ty...omparison.html

Understanding its principle should go a long way . . . unless, the ITR is super tuned from the factory, which is likely the case. The reason why I pick the ITR . . . it set the standard how NA cars should and could do. Hell, I still give more respect to the ITR than the RSX Type-S with more power.


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ic/index1.html

The same for the previous gen SI. Did Honda get away with it because of factory super tuning like the ITR?

I don't expect Mitsu doing super tuning from the factory, except for the Evo via FQ series or TME . . . don't think they have done it w/ the top line FTO in euro or GTO in Japan.

 

Baha, the ITR has MAD R&D at the factory. I believe the engines are fully blueprinted, heads ported and polished, the 10.5:1 CR balanced, lightweight pistons...... lots of well thought out engineering to make them, as you pointed out, what an NA car should be... as the article says "a lot of cars say they 'race inspired' [OZ Rally for instance?] but few are built with race technology"

EDIT: 11.0:1 CR, I stand corrected

Gents, While I cannot assure you that 10.5:1 CR pistons will not damage your engine, I know for a fact that a buddy of mine has 10.5:1 CR pistons installed since about June of 2004 and has reported ZERO problems. He is using the stock ECU. I advise you to install the pistons, try them out. Get on a dyno with a WBO2 sensor and see what's going on. Perhaps the shop doing your install has a dyno on site, or has connections with a place that can give you a discount for having gone to your mechanic for install (a little quid-pro-quo, you scratch my back....) You're already dropping fat cash for the pistons and install, what's another $75 for an hour at a shop, making sure that you're making good, safe power?