My Lancer truths
Aug 16, 2006, 07:46 AM
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My Lancer truths
Just browsing the forums as usual, and it occurs to me how I see the same stuff over and over. And I know the answers, because I've read it all before. So I figured I'd post. Feel free to add your own (as this thread has grown, I see that doesn't really work. So suggest something and if I agree, I'll add it).
Background - I've been around imports for since 2003. I had my first Lancer for over two years, and did a lot of modding - engine, suspension, planned (and scrapped) turbo kit, body graphics, the works. I've done a lot of reading on forums, and I like to think I know more than the average n00b that I started out as. I had a Subaru for a couple years, now I'm back to Lancerland with my new '08 GTS.
Notice - this advice really applies to the '02-'06 Lancers. As I learn more about the '08s, I might make a new section for them.
Shopping
So, with all the advice below, I figured I'd add some recommendations. As usual, organized by category.
Power: there's no good "go to" purchase. Every mod will have a different effect. And in the end, you still have a Lancer. It's a good car, but not one designed to race or be fast. So remember that. An intake (SRI or CAI) is a good start. An exhaust (axleback or catback) is good also. Most new modders will do intake/exhaust first, so it's a good place to start out.
Suspension: When you first buy the car, whether it's an ES or OZ, you should buy the Progress rear sway bar. It's greatly needed to help turn the "grocery getter" into a car with good handling. After that, if you genuinely care about handling, you should get coilovers. Brand would depend on budget. After those two items, you have the cake. Everything else is just icing.
Wheels/tires: Tires are the first thing to change. The Lancer comes with crappy tires stock. Just getting a decent set will GREATLY help the way your car drives.
Brakes: Get front pads first. You can get everything else later. But much like suspension, once you've changed the pads, you've done 90% of the work. Things like rotors and hoses won't help the brake feel. PADS WILL.
Power
- N/A, you won't make too much power. Just accept that. You can make the car better than stock, but if you get every mod, you're still only going to add 30 hp or so.
- Yes, changing your exhaust will take away low-end power. It will add top-end power. This is always true. There are no exceptions. Stop asking how to have the cake and eat it too, OK?
See also: here.
- There are two exhaust sizes that matter - 2.25 inches for N/A and "anything bigger than that" for turbo.
- If you want big power, get a turbo. Sorry, there's no other way.
- Nitrous will not work. Our pistons are too weak.
- Things like the crank pulley, new plug wires and a grounding kit won't make a (very) noticeable difference. They're little things you add to improve your car bit by bit. So don't say those Magnacor wires (that you paid way too much for, since NGK's spark plug wires are 1/4 the price) made the car run sooooo much better.
- Cold air intake vs. short ram intake. I've had them both, and there ain't much difference (yes, I said it. Read it again.). So stop trying to preach about your favorite. Either one will only add 2 whp (or less) anyhow.
- You can't buy a better spark plug. Platinum and Iridium are largely a waste of time. Some of them even perform worse with the Lancer's "wasted spark" ignition system. Stick to the stock plugs and change them every 15k.
- Just because ITB is a great mod for N/A cars, that doesn't mean you HAVE to add it to a turbo setup to be super-extra good. It doesn't work like that. It'll just make your car incredibly difficult to tune.
- You CAN do a motor swap. But it won't be easy and it won't be cheap. Here's a solid post-swap thread. Motors like the 4G64 and 4G69 are set up similarly and some folks are working on swaps as I type this. If you make a post about it, however, half of EvoM will post to tell you that it's stupid/impossible/gay or that you should have bought an Evo. So be aware...
Also, be aware of one simple fact: You don't drive a Honda. You don't drive a Subaru. So stop thinking "I'll swap in a Spoon engine and win at RaceWars!" because that s*** ain't happening, bro.
Brakes
- Brake pads are all you need. They're 90% of your brakes. If you buy a nice set of performance pads, you've done what can be done. Slotted rotors, a larger kit, brake hoses, etc are just little "add-on" modifications. Said it above in "shopping" but I'll say it again.
- You don't need a big brake kit. Got it? If you had to ask, you don't need it. BBKs don't make you stop faster or harder. BBKs actually take more distance to stop than the stock setup in most tests. People get BBKs because they don't overheat when they're racing. You don't even warm your brake pads drifting that corner to Giant Eagle, hotshot.
- You don't need better rear brakes! The rear brakes do like 10% of the stopping. Why improve them? Why waste the money?
Suspension
- The first suspension mod you do should be a rear sway bar. And Progress is the only company that makes it. So go buy one.
- The Lancer handles OK from the factory. The ride is a little plush and not very race-ish. But you CAN fix that. Believe me, I had every available mod (at the time, genius. So stop telling me I didn't have a mod that came out after I sold the car).
- Springs are not a great idea. They can destroy your struts and make your car bumpy. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Yeah, they'll improve handling, but that's only for the time your struts survive.
- There's no good option for aftermarket struts. Deal with it. COILOVERS.
- You want coilovers. Truly. The handling on the Lancer becomes amazing. And if you go adjustable, you can make the ride a little bit more "grandma friendly."
- The strut brace is a cool blingy mod, and fairly cheap. BUT it also does virtually nothing for your car. The strut towers are sitting against the firewall. Not much room for chassis flex, mkay? You can buy it, but 1) get an affordable one like RRM's and 2) make sure it's way down the list of priorities.
Wheels/Tires
- Good tires are the single best handling mod you can make to your car. So stop buying strut braces. Get good tires first. ESPECIALLY on the Lancer, which comes with crap tires from the factory.
- Yeah, 18" is too big. The only time it's good is when you're going for the "look at my hugeass wheels!" look. And they'll probably rub.
- To be honest, 17" is too big too. But it's an acceptable medium between "look at my big wheels!" and "look at my large traction-friendly wheels!".
- 16" is a great choice. Offers good size selection and doesn't look to oversized. A good choice for those going for "looks good, but isn't a bling-***** thing."
General automotive
Carbon fiber is cool. Know why? Because it's very strong and very lightweight. Racecars use it because of those two things. That does not mean the anything CF-related is cool. If you replace a part on your car with CF because it it lightweight (like your hood), that's a good thing. You probably cut 30 lbs. off the front of the front-heavy Lancer. However, if you use CF badly, you're being a stupid ricer. For example, if you get something wrapped in CF, you still have the same heavy metal part, but you've added the weight of the CF. You did it to look cool, not because it will improve performance. Yes, that's rice. If you use fake-CF or CF stickers, it's rice. Same reason.
[Special Lancer section] - since I know people will ask, there are special Lancer rules. Anything RRM makes out of CF is pretty good. The reflectors are much cooler than the stock ones. The eyelids are a nice fashion item, and the use of CF is acceptable. The CF cubby plate is perfectly fine. Etc.
That's all for now. More as I think of it.
Background - I've been around imports for since 2003. I had my first Lancer for over two years, and did a lot of modding - engine, suspension, planned (and scrapped) turbo kit, body graphics, the works. I've done a lot of reading on forums, and I like to think I know more than the average n00b that I started out as. I had a Subaru for a couple years, now I'm back to Lancerland with my new '08 GTS.
Notice - this advice really applies to the '02-'06 Lancers. As I learn more about the '08s, I might make a new section for them.
Shopping
So, with all the advice below, I figured I'd add some recommendations. As usual, organized by category.
Power: there's no good "go to" purchase. Every mod will have a different effect. And in the end, you still have a Lancer. It's a good car, but not one designed to race or be fast. So remember that. An intake (SRI or CAI) is a good start. An exhaust (axleback or catback) is good also. Most new modders will do intake/exhaust first, so it's a good place to start out.
Suspension: When you first buy the car, whether it's an ES or OZ, you should buy the Progress rear sway bar. It's greatly needed to help turn the "grocery getter" into a car with good handling. After that, if you genuinely care about handling, you should get coilovers. Brand would depend on budget. After those two items, you have the cake. Everything else is just icing.
Wheels/tires: Tires are the first thing to change. The Lancer comes with crappy tires stock. Just getting a decent set will GREATLY help the way your car drives.
Brakes: Get front pads first. You can get everything else later. But much like suspension, once you've changed the pads, you've done 90% of the work. Things like rotors and hoses won't help the brake feel. PADS WILL.
Power
- N/A, you won't make too much power. Just accept that. You can make the car better than stock, but if you get every mod, you're still only going to add 30 hp or so.
- Yes, changing your exhaust will take away low-end power. It will add top-end power. This is always true. There are no exceptions. Stop asking how to have the cake and eat it too, OK?
See also: here.
- There are two exhaust sizes that matter - 2.25 inches for N/A and "anything bigger than that" for turbo.
- If you want big power, get a turbo. Sorry, there's no other way.
- Nitrous will not work. Our pistons are too weak.
- Things like the crank pulley, new plug wires and a grounding kit won't make a (very) noticeable difference. They're little things you add to improve your car bit by bit. So don't say those Magnacor wires (that you paid way too much for, since NGK's spark plug wires are 1/4 the price) made the car run sooooo much better.
- Cold air intake vs. short ram intake. I've had them both, and there ain't much difference (yes, I said it. Read it again.). So stop trying to preach about your favorite. Either one will only add 2 whp (or less) anyhow.
- You can't buy a better spark plug. Platinum and Iridium are largely a waste of time. Some of them even perform worse with the Lancer's "wasted spark" ignition system. Stick to the stock plugs and change them every 15k.
- Just because ITB is a great mod for N/A cars, that doesn't mean you HAVE to add it to a turbo setup to be super-extra good. It doesn't work like that. It'll just make your car incredibly difficult to tune.
- You CAN do a motor swap. But it won't be easy and it won't be cheap. Here's a solid post-swap thread. Motors like the 4G64 and 4G69 are set up similarly and some folks are working on swaps as I type this. If you make a post about it, however, half of EvoM will post to tell you that it's stupid/impossible/gay or that you should have bought an Evo. So be aware...
Also, be aware of one simple fact: You don't drive a Honda. You don't drive a Subaru. So stop thinking "I'll swap in a Spoon engine and win at RaceWars!" because that s*** ain't happening, bro.
Brakes
- Brake pads are all you need. They're 90% of your brakes. If you buy a nice set of performance pads, you've done what can be done. Slotted rotors, a larger kit, brake hoses, etc are just little "add-on" modifications. Said it above in "shopping" but I'll say it again.
- You don't need a big brake kit. Got it? If you had to ask, you don't need it. BBKs don't make you stop faster or harder. BBKs actually take more distance to stop than the stock setup in most tests. People get BBKs because they don't overheat when they're racing. You don't even warm your brake pads drifting that corner to Giant Eagle, hotshot.
- You don't need better rear brakes! The rear brakes do like 10% of the stopping. Why improve them? Why waste the money?
Suspension
- The first suspension mod you do should be a rear sway bar. And Progress is the only company that makes it. So go buy one.
- The Lancer handles OK from the factory. The ride is a little plush and not very race-ish. But you CAN fix that. Believe me, I had every available mod (at the time, genius. So stop telling me I didn't have a mod that came out after I sold the car).
- Springs are not a great idea. They can destroy your struts and make your car bumpy. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Yeah, they'll improve handling, but that's only for the time your struts survive.
- There's no good option for aftermarket struts. Deal with it. COILOVERS.
- You want coilovers. Truly. The handling on the Lancer becomes amazing. And if you go adjustable, you can make the ride a little bit more "grandma friendly."
- The strut brace is a cool blingy mod, and fairly cheap. BUT it also does virtually nothing for your car. The strut towers are sitting against the firewall. Not much room for chassis flex, mkay? You can buy it, but 1) get an affordable one like RRM's and 2) make sure it's way down the list of priorities.
Wheels/Tires
- Good tires are the single best handling mod you can make to your car. So stop buying strut braces. Get good tires first. ESPECIALLY on the Lancer, which comes with crap tires from the factory.
- Yeah, 18" is too big. The only time it's good is when you're going for the "look at my hugeass wheels!" look. And they'll probably rub.
- To be honest, 17" is too big too. But it's an acceptable medium between "look at my big wheels!" and "look at my large traction-friendly wheels!".
- 16" is a great choice. Offers good size selection and doesn't look to oversized. A good choice for those going for "looks good, but isn't a bling-***** thing."
General automotive
Carbon fiber is cool. Know why? Because it's very strong and very lightweight. Racecars use it because of those two things. That does not mean the anything CF-related is cool. If you replace a part on your car with CF because it it lightweight (like your hood), that's a good thing. You probably cut 30 lbs. off the front of the front-heavy Lancer. However, if you use CF badly, you're being a stupid ricer. For example, if you get something wrapped in CF, you still have the same heavy metal part, but you've added the weight of the CF. You did it to look cool, not because it will improve performance. Yes, that's rice. If you use fake-CF or CF stickers, it's rice. Same reason.
[Special Lancer section] - since I know people will ask, there are special Lancer rules. Anything RRM makes out of CF is pretty good. The reflectors are much cooler than the stock ones. The eyelids are a nice fashion item, and the use of CF is acceptable. The CF cubby plate is perfectly fine. Etc.
That's all for now. More as I think of it.
Last edited by Blacksheepdj; Aug 27, 2007 at 08:58 PM.
Aug 16, 2006, 09:01 AM
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^Springs don't kill shocks...it's the road...the road also kills your tires and provide friction. Get rid of the road and you could fly.
I will be serious. The lower you go using springs the more likely you are to destroy your shocks. With your stock springs your shocks can absorb a big pothole but if you lower your car chances of absorbing that pothole and not destroying your shocks is smaller.
I will be serious. The lower you go using springs the more likely you are to destroy your shocks. With your stock springs your shocks can absorb a big pothole but if you lower your car chances of absorbing that pothole and not destroying your shocks is smaller.
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Aug 16, 2006, 09:45 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by Grey_Fox
Don't forget there is supercharger you can get for extra HP/TQ.
And I highly doubt your "extra HP/TQ" claim. RRM Stage 2 is hard to beat right now. Especially when the SC kit comes from a company that no longer works in the Lancer market.
Originally Posted by joberk3
i thought rrm progress springs dont kill stock shocks tho?
Aug 16, 2006, 09:51 AM
#9
I will add to this:
Background:
I have been building cars for 10 years, I have built muscle cars for the street and strip, lead sleads, imports and trucks.
Making your car fast:
If you wan't your car to be worthwile for 1/4 mile racing then do yourself a favour, buy a 1st gen TSI or a 87-91 Civic (DX not Si for weight reasons). Or just buy a muscle car.
Regardless of your Lancer, ES, LS, OZ, Ralliart, Evo my opinion is that making it a 1/4 mile car is a stupid waste of time and you should just buy something better for your application.
The Exception:
Taking your car to the 1/4 mile track for tuning purposes is perfectly fine. There is usually straight lines that link the corners, you will want to hold your own on the straights and dominate on the corners. This brings me to my next point.
Around the Bend:
The lancer stock is no handeling machine, sure its not bad but its not great either. There are a few simple areas to focus on to help you and your car get around the track better.
1. Peddles
You may find your self hitting the gas when your are trying to brake and vice versa and constantly cursing the layout of the peddles on the lancer. Use this to your advantage. The peddles on the lancer are perfectly set up for heal toe. Adding some peddle covers (decent ones that one fall off/break) will make it even that much easier. By controlling the gas, break and clutch at the same time you are able to increase your cornoring speeds and adgility. You can control between oversteer and under steer throughout the corner quite a bit doing this. It will also help you break later using a revmatching technique while breaking at the same time (heal toe). Of course a good suspention setup will help aswell.
Slamed to the ground isnt everything:
1.75 drop is perfect, less then that is okay, more then that is useless. You will find simply swaping out the stock suspention to a full coilover setup will drastically improve the handeling of the lancer without even touching the ride height.
I found the best set up was 1.75 in the front and 1.50 in the rear (I will get exact numbers when I find where I put them) Strut bars and perches are usefull but I never used them and I never felt that I needed them.
Tires:
Well not exactly, drivers win races, but tires are the next most important thing.
So you wan't some big wheels cause they look good eh. Great, I suggest 17X 7(.5) but keep your stock OZ wheels, put some R compound 50 series sidewall tires on them and use them for solo2 solo1 and lapping days. Regardless of what you may have been told about bigger wheels improving handeling, there is no point of putting on wheels that will decrease your power and increase your stopping distances.
Okay I will touch on the engine a little bit:
With a piggy back (v1), no ac/power stearing, CAI, test pipe and magnaflow cat back with resignator I had a 16 WHP gain and a 15 Wft. lbs of tourque. Was it worth the money? Ya because the piggyback and other mods changed where I get the power a little bit so when comming off of corners where I dropped out of the power band, but was going too fast for a lower gear (1st and second referance) I was able to have a little bit more to get me going.
Background:
I have been building cars for 10 years, I have built muscle cars for the street and strip, lead sleads, imports and trucks.
Making your car fast:
If you wan't your car to be worthwile for 1/4 mile racing then do yourself a favour, buy a 1st gen TSI or a 87-91 Civic (DX not Si for weight reasons). Or just buy a muscle car.
Regardless of your Lancer, ES, LS, OZ, Ralliart, Evo my opinion is that making it a 1/4 mile car is a stupid waste of time and you should just buy something better for your application.
The Exception:
Taking your car to the 1/4 mile track for tuning purposes is perfectly fine. There is usually straight lines that link the corners, you will want to hold your own on the straights and dominate on the corners. This brings me to my next point.
Around the Bend:
The lancer stock is no handeling machine, sure its not bad but its not great either. There are a few simple areas to focus on to help you and your car get around the track better.
1. Peddles
You may find your self hitting the gas when your are trying to brake and vice versa and constantly cursing the layout of the peddles on the lancer. Use this to your advantage. The peddles on the lancer are perfectly set up for heal toe. Adding some peddle covers (decent ones that one fall off/break) will make it even that much easier. By controlling the gas, break and clutch at the same time you are able to increase your cornoring speeds and adgility. You can control between oversteer and under steer throughout the corner quite a bit doing this. It will also help you break later using a revmatching technique while breaking at the same time (heal toe). Of course a good suspention setup will help aswell.
Slamed to the ground isnt everything:
1.75 drop is perfect, less then that is okay, more then that is useless. You will find simply swaping out the stock suspention to a full coilover setup will drastically improve the handeling of the lancer without even touching the ride height.
I found the best set up was 1.75 in the front and 1.50 in the rear (I will get exact numbers when I find where I put them) Strut bars and perches are usefull but I never used them and I never felt that I needed them.
Tires:
Originally Posted by Harry from Days Of Thunder
Cole, tires are what win races
So you wan't some big wheels cause they look good eh. Great, I suggest 17X 7(.5) but keep your stock OZ wheels, put some R compound 50 series sidewall tires on them and use them for solo2 solo1 and lapping days. Regardless of what you may have been told about bigger wheels improving handeling, there is no point of putting on wheels that will decrease your power and increase your stopping distances.
Okay I will touch on the engine a little bit:
With a piggy back (v1), no ac/power stearing, CAI, test pipe and magnaflow cat back with resignator I had a 16 WHP gain and a 15 Wft. lbs of tourque. Was it worth the money? Ya because the piggyback and other mods changed where I get the power a little bit so when comming off of corners where I dropped out of the power band, but was going too fast for a lower gear (1st and second referance) I was able to have a little bit more to get me going.
Aug 16, 2006, 12:37 PM
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modding my car the na route.
ITS FUN. fun to drive.
i have coilovers rear sway bar and a couple rpw products on my engine rrm magnum rail etc.
rides nice, sounds nice, lancers look stupid sick fixed up.
couple things-
break conversions are mostly for show, WHO WNATS DRUMS?
no ONE has pushed na power far enough, lets not forget itb's ttb's etc, u CAN add more powerr that way.
but for tuning anf especially this car,
You pay to play.
ITS FUN. fun to drive.
i have coilovers rear sway bar and a couple rpw products on my engine rrm magnum rail etc.
rides nice, sounds nice, lancers look stupid sick fixed up.
couple things-
break conversions are mostly for show, WHO WNATS DRUMS?
no ONE has pushed na power far enough, lets not forget itb's ttb's etc, u CAN add more powerr that way.
but for tuning anf especially this car,
You pay to play.
Aug 16, 2006, 02:08 PM
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the blown shocks from springs on a lancer is pretty much an urban myth. None of the spring manufactures make springs that drop more than 1.5in. if you are blowing shocks, maybe you shouldn't go driving through potholes at 60mph. There really aren't any documented cases of blown shocks from springs on lancers. it may be true on other cars, but so far its not on the lancer.
if you aren't going for big power, make it handle good.
if you aren't going for big power, make it handle good.
Aug 16, 2006, 02:20 PM
#15
I'm convinced springs blow shocks. Sure some of it is the road and driver, I doubt that people from all across the country drive exactly the same to blow shocks in around the same time span. My brother has gone through two (I believe) sets of shocks on his corolla (sport model) using eibach springs, somehow I don't think the shocks on the lancer are that much better, if at all.