New BW EFR Turbo Thread
EvoM Guru
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From: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
Black E had an interesting comment somewhere that made perfect sense in relation to the size of the turbine wheel. Basically, the larger size of the wheel on the 9180 made it more susceptible to breakage, compared to the 9174 or even the 8374. I think it's still a bad omen no matter how you look at it and it sucks. I hope my 8374 stays together after seeing this carnage.
...
It is also a fact that TiAl has much less ductility than Inco and is much more susceptible to impact damage as shown by the FP video.
The issue with TiAl is that it is notoriously difficult to cast and manufacture. As such, you can end up with strength reducing things like porosity and surface imperfections. So, it's my guess with the larger 80mm turbine wheel, they are just having issues getting it to cast properly, probably ending up with pockets of porosity in the middle of the wheel which weaken it significantly (the thicker something is, the harder it is to cast it without imperfections).
It is also a fact that TiAl has much less ductility than Inco and is much more susceptible to impact damage as shown by the FP video.
The issue with TiAl is that it is notoriously difficult to cast and manufacture. As such, you can end up with strength reducing things like porosity and surface imperfections. So, it's my guess with the larger 80mm turbine wheel, they are just having issues getting it to cast properly, probably ending up with pockets of porosity in the middle of the wheel which weaken it significantly (the thicker something is, the harder it is to cast it without imperfections).
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: wisconsin
S369-SXE also has a different turbine wheel. Still inconnel, but uses a cupped design with more flow even though it is unclipped like the original s366 which is clipped. Like MrFred said if you don't exceed the rated rpm of the turbo it should be all good. thinking about an upgrade too a 369-SXE if I can't get 800 out of the 366.
Good read on SXE
http://www.agpturbo.com/blog/the-bor...n-inside-look/
Good read on SXE
http://www.agpturbo.com/blog/the-bor...n-inside-look/
All turbos will vibrate at certain wheel speeds, they can be at higher wheel speeds or Low wheel speeds, and sometimes multiplied by engine harmonics.
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2013
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From: Phoenix
Again, according to Geoff they haven't blown up any 74mm turbine wheels due to overspeed and it can supposedly it can handle a full 10% overspeed. The only problem is, its just him saying this. He's the same guy that told me that "he'd handle it" just like he did for black e, but 2 months later here I am with no turbo so his credibility is a bit shaky. Now I hear that an 8374 blew up because of a collapsed inlet coupler so...
With this being said, my customer is never going to go with a BW turbo ever again and has an extremely negative taste in his mouth from it. As for me, It looks like I'm going to rip off the 9174 for a custom GT35 with a p trim turbine wheel and a custom extended tip compressor wheel. I don't think it will spool the same as the EFR, but I hope it's close since it's a 62/84 vs a 67/91 compressor wheel and I have more variety with my turbine hotside selection. I know I'll make more power but meh. Just can't do this Bob Wagner support that they got going on for myself or any of my customers.
Evolved Member
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From: With my admirers in the BACK ROOM!
Yes, yes there is. I have held it in my hands. Just because you haven't heard of it yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I sell BorgWarners all the time.
Oh, would you look at this:
http://whalenspeed.com/collections/b...1mm-super-core
Oh, would you look at this:
http://whalenspeed.com/collections/b...1mm-super-core
Do you know when they came out with this wheel?
EvoM Guru
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From: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
As for me, It looks like I'm going to rip off the 9174 for a custom GT35 with a p trim turbine wheel and a custom extended tip compressor wheel. I don't think it will spool the same as the EFR, but I hope it's close since it's a 62/84 vs a 67/91 compressor wheel and I have more variety with my turbine hotside selection. I know I'll make more power but meh. Just can't do this Bob Wagner support that they got going on for myself or any of my customers.
Or if you're looking for a high power, low cost option, check out the GTW3884R.
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2013
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From: Phoenix
So the ideal wheel pairing is 9180 which falls between the GTX4088 and GTX4594. I'd venture a guess the GTX4088 is close in power to the 9174; compressor of the 4088 is a bit lower flowing, but the GT40 turbine flows more freeing up the backside. The 4088 has a better wheel speed match for better turbine efficiency than the 9174; or said another way, the wheel speed match/blade speed ratio of the 9174 is poor (again, 9180 is the more ideal sizing) which results in lower turbine efficiency which offsets the response of the low mass TiAl turbine wheel a bit.
Or if you're looking for a high power, low cost option, check out the GTW3884R.
Or if you're looking for a high power, low cost option, check out the GTW3884R.
Evolved Member
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 651
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From: With my admirers in the BACK ROOM!
Yes, yes there is. I have held it in my hands. Just because you haven't heard of it yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I sell BorgWarners all the time.
Oh, would you look at this:
http://whalenspeed.com/collections/b...1mm-super-core
Oh, would you look at this:
http://whalenspeed.com/collections/b...1mm-super-core
So, you might sell Borg Warner turbochargers, but you will not sell this particular turbo direct from Borg Warner because they don't make it. Since you held it in your hands, that must mean that you work for John there at Waylon speed. I think it's a cool turbo and I really like the idea of putting this 71 mm wheel in this chassis. But you shouldn't come here on the Internet and represent the turbo as if it is a direct purchase from Borg Warner because it is not.
Last edited by way2qik; Apr 27, 2016 at 02:39 AM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 143
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
With this being said, my customer is never going to go with a BW turbo ever again and has an extremely negative taste in his mouth from it. As for me, It looks like I'm going to rip off the 9174 for a custom GT35 with a p trim turbine wheel and a custom extended tip compressor wheel. I don't think it will spool the same as the EFR, but I hope it's close since it's a 62/84 vs a 67/91 compressor wheel and I have more variety with my turbine hotside selection. I know I'll make more power but meh. Just can't do this Bob Wagner support that they got going on for myself or any of my customers.
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 62
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From: Phoenix
I hope you're kidding. The P trim turbine wheel is antique, heavy and not efficient. I tried one several years ago paired with a PTE billett 62mm comp wheel in a ball bearing housing and it was laggy with poor transient response. I compared it against 5 other turbos that year and the one I kept on my car is the 6466. I'm not trying to sell you a turbo, just keep in mind that the newer tech wheels from various manufacturers are worth it.