Bad Bish, the next generation-introducing the clutchless 4 speed.
The 1g drag car took way to long at Gary's. It is at the painters now and he was in the hospital......it's not looking good. This maroon car I bought just to make go 9's and then sell after the Shootout, it shohld be good to go. The plan is.to have 2 DSM's and the EVO ready though!
The Haltech in my car is set up for anti lag now. It has the ability to run an "AEM style" two step too.
To be honest, I didn't give it much thought yet. I think I was planning to just foot brake it to 4,000 and let the foot brake go, no two step or anti lag. You have to understand that typically you use those to build boost, IF I can get my car to 4,000 rpm I won't need either one, the set up is good enough that it will make I'd guess nearly 15 psi just holding it against the foot brake at 4,000 rpm. If I remember right in 3rd gear just driving it makes 20 psi by about 4400 rpm. If it tries to push or continue to climb in RPM then I will have to limit the RPM somehow. Right now the clutchless 4 speed has no speed sensor and like an idiot when I rewired my car I removed ALL the wiring for the speedo and speed sensor. It is on m list of things to do. I like using the anti lag/two step and turning it on/off via vehicle speed. I could put it on the brake switch too but I really want my speedo functioning again too......
To be honest, I didn't give it much thought yet. I think I was planning to just foot brake it to 4,000 and let the foot brake go, no two step or anti lag. You have to understand that typically you use those to build boost, IF I can get my car to 4,000 rpm I won't need either one, the set up is good enough that it will make I'd guess nearly 15 psi just holding it against the foot brake at 4,000 rpm. If I remember right in 3rd gear just driving it makes 20 psi by about 4400 rpm. If it tries to push or continue to climb in RPM then I will have to limit the RPM somehow. Right now the clutchless 4 speed has no speed sensor and like an idiot when I rewired my car I removed ALL the wiring for the speedo and speed sensor. It is on m list of things to do. I like using the anti lag/two step and turning it on/off via vehicle speed. I could put it on the brake switch too but I really want my speedo functioning again too......
Rick, my "dad", fixed the control box for me this weekend. We popped it back in the car Saturday night and tried it again. We now have 1st, 2nd and Reverse. So back where we started. Still no 3rd or 4th.
The plan now is...........well honestly I have no freaking idea. I am going to put this 1g auto together I picked up a few weeks ago so I can get it out of the bay next to the EVO. Then start finishing the mounts for the trans in the EVO (1 left) button up all my wiring which I never finished because I wanted to finish the trans first. Then just go over the car so it's in a presentable condition.
We have 3rd gear, an excellent 3rd actually when we put the car into default mode, so I know for a fact 3rd gear works. The box is not putting the car into 3rd for some reason and we have no overdrive at all, haven't with this style trans since we started.
The plan now is...........well honestly I have no freaking idea. I am going to put this 1g auto together I picked up a few weeks ago so I can get it out of the bay next to the EVO. Then start finishing the mounts for the trans in the EVO (1 left) button up all my wiring which I never finished because I wanted to finish the trans first. Then just go over the car so it's in a presentable condition.
We have 3rd gear, an excellent 3rd actually when we put the car into default mode, so I know for a fact 3rd gear works. The box is not putting the car into 3rd for some reason and we have no overdrive at all, haven't with this style trans since we started.
Could you setup a physical switch for each of the solenoids for the trans to see if the output of the control box is correct?
(now making **** up) if there's 5 solenoids is it just one engaged at a time for the foreword gears and then the one for first+another for reverse?
That's all I can contribute for an idea, and it's assuming that the trans is that simple to control
(now making **** up) if there's 5 solenoids is it just one engaged at a time for the foreword gears and then the one for first+another for reverse?
That's all I can contribute for an idea, and it's assuming that the trans is that simple to control
I've been really really interested in Dave's build for quite some time now. I know its frustrating, but just doing it well, I give kudos for Dave even trying.
I already apologize if I send this off-topic a bit, but I hope this next suggestion helps.
After a bit of research (electrical avionics engineer myself) I'm beginning to wonder if something like this:
http://www.black-ridge.com/transmission-controller.htm
might help allow an easier path of getting this tranny to work?
I know also electronics are at times a sensitive religious study, but I have found that a good set of meters and probes really help in the long run. With the proliferation of hybrids I'm personally jumping into a PicoScope setup, just to try and help the community with electronic usage there.
On this topic, if there is somebody that has a nice inductive PicoScope setup that might offer Dave some really good insight into what the tranny is doing in a run-time scenario I would love to hear some ideas there.
My small 0.02
~j.
I already apologize if I send this off-topic a bit, but I hope this next suggestion helps.
After a bit of research (electrical avionics engineer myself) I'm beginning to wonder if something like this:
http://www.black-ridge.com/transmission-controller.htm
might help allow an easier path of getting this tranny to work?
I know also electronics are at times a sensitive religious study, but I have found that a good set of meters and probes really help in the long run. With the proliferation of hybrids I'm personally jumping into a PicoScope setup, just to try and help the community with electronic usage there.
On this topic, if there is somebody that has a nice inductive PicoScope setup that might offer Dave some really good insight into what the tranny is doing in a run-time scenario I would love to hear some ideas there.
My small 0.02
~j.
A physical switch has been attempted. More than one solenoid is active per gear.
I like the trans controller from PCS but it doesn't seem to have an application close to what I have, the Mitsu stuff listed is 1g/2g stuff.
I like the trans controller from PCS but it doesn't seem to have an application close to what I have, the Mitsu stuff listed is 1g/2g stuff.
http://www.powertraincontrolsolution...ual_rev2.1.pdf
I'm getting out of my league at this point not having seen the tranny. A picture is worth 1,000 words and putting my hands on it 10,000.
However, if it helps, three suggestions:
1 - If the solenoid input wires could be inline separated, (sometimes I've built harness extenders), a couple of digital voltmeters could be hooked up and one could see the solenoids be activated; per shift. I'm hoping you could gain some insight if the current controller is simply not firing the correct solenoid combinations.
2 - If you needed to take it a bit further, a four channel Picoscope would be able to instrument multiple things happening all at once. I'm hoping that the tranny would have at max four solenoids and no more.
3 - The article gives both a good accounting of the PCS controller, and some comparable setups; more specifically the 4L60E? (Four-speed GM). They list all of the common inputs and outputs and I hope the tranny you have is somewhat comparable.
Best of luck, and thanks for the updates.
~j.
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Depew, NY
1 - If the solenoid input wires could be inline separated, (sometimes I've built harness extenders), a couple of digital voltmeters could be hooked up and one could see the solenoids be activated; per shift. I'm hoping you could gain some insight if the current controller is simply not firing the correct solenoid combinations.
Thanks for the support fellas.
Yeah, we have been thinking it was in the controller for quite a few days now. It's odd because this trans worked good at first, we had a perfect 1st, 2nd and then 3rd on default and Reverse worked. We have gone through pulling the entire trans out numerous times and now experimenting with valve bodies. "I" finally gave up and told my friend Dave, "Buddy, I am done, we need someone smarter than everyone else involved so far. Let's just put it back how it was when it had 1, 2, "3" and Reverse and then I am going to contact someone else and go with my other plan.........so we pulled the pan and WTF, one of the pistons fell out into the pan. AWESOME! So we thought. Pulled the valve body, figured out why it came out, fixed it, reinstalled it and still wasn't right. Pulled the valve body again, put the original back in and it acted exactly like the valve body we had just pulled out. DAMN IT!!!!!!! So now the trans was back to original but did not have the 1,2,3,R. It just made no sense what-so-ever. We started discussing what could possibly be wrong and I decided to pull the wiring harness apart to the "Magic Box" (that's what Andrew calls his shift box) to see if the wiring was good, if the wiring had been modified by Kevin or what. Dave was holding the control box, after we had taken the ground off the battery and kept commenting how "hot" it felt. I told him, "Andrew told me it gets hot, it's OK." He says, "Man it really hot, I can't believe it is suppose to be like this." In the meantime I was unwrapping the harness. We see nothing wrong with the wires and decide to look inside to see if we can figure out what wires were added after Andrew built the box by Kevin............Dave sees the actual cover is MELTED! Not good. I then see one of the resistors is melted and completely dislodged from the circuit board, for sure not good.
So, I have been trying to contact Andrew for a few days to get a replacement box sent over. I have a feeling as soon as we plug it in, we are going to be good to go. The frustration, anger and flat out disgust along with pulling the trans about 5 times and the valve body probably no less than 10 times in the last week all because maybe we have a box that was bad.........oh boy. It will certainly be a relief though.
Yeah, we have been thinking it was in the controller for quite a few days now. It's odd because this trans worked good at first, we had a perfect 1st, 2nd and then 3rd on default and Reverse worked. We have gone through pulling the entire trans out numerous times and now experimenting with valve bodies. "I" finally gave up and told my friend Dave, "Buddy, I am done, we need someone smarter than everyone else involved so far. Let's just put it back how it was when it had 1, 2, "3" and Reverse and then I am going to contact someone else and go with my other plan.........so we pulled the pan and WTF, one of the pistons fell out into the pan. AWESOME! So we thought. Pulled the valve body, figured out why it came out, fixed it, reinstalled it and still wasn't right. Pulled the valve body again, put the original back in and it acted exactly like the valve body we had just pulled out. DAMN IT!!!!!!! So now the trans was back to original but did not have the 1,2,3,R. It just made no sense what-so-ever. We started discussing what could possibly be wrong and I decided to pull the wiring harness apart to the "Magic Box" (that's what Andrew calls his shift box) to see if the wiring was good, if the wiring had been modified by Kevin or what. Dave was holding the control box, after we had taken the ground off the battery and kept commenting how "hot" it felt. I told him, "Andrew told me it gets hot, it's OK." He says, "Man it really hot, I can't believe it is suppose to be like this." In the meantime I was unwrapping the harness. We see nothing wrong with the wires and decide to look inside to see if we can figure out what wires were added after Andrew built the box by Kevin............Dave sees the actual cover is MELTED! Not good. I then see one of the resistors is melted and completely dislodged from the circuit board, for sure not good.
So, I have been trying to contact Andrew for a few days to get a replacement box sent over. I have a feeling as soon as we plug it in, we are going to be good to go. The frustration, anger and flat out disgust along with pulling the trans about 5 times and the valve body probably no less than 10 times in the last week all because maybe we have a box that was bad.........oh boy. It will certainly be a relief though.
I think my comments hold true so far ... yet to help me focus a bit more (now I'm curious) .. without going to proprietary information, is this a common Mitsu controller, and would the community be allowed some model information, and/or insight into the modifications?
My thoughts are if there is excessive heat in the electronics, there are about six things I'm thinking could be causing heat. A few revolve around output resistance regarding the drivers, a few more regarding grounding schemas. My suggestions might meet a quick dead end, but I will help where I can.
Thanks again,
~j.
You think maybe from removing the speed sensor could be the cause for it not shifting into 3rd or 4th? I thought you would need that sensor so the CPU would know when to shift due to rpm and mph. Just a thought.
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Depew, NY
Thinking out loud here...
You said the box gets hot. Is there a possibility that the heat building up in the box and wires, is enough to cause a large enough resistance to prevent the solenoids from activating. Are your solenoids upgraded causing an extra draw that's unaccounted for?
You said the box gets hot. Is there a possibility that the heat building up in the box and wires, is enough to cause a large enough resistance to prevent the solenoids from activating. Are your solenoids upgraded causing an extra draw that's unaccounted for?
Just a shot in the dark since I am also very interested in this idea.
Give Level 10 a call and see if they have any ideas
http://www.levelten.com/
With the amount of power do you have enough stall in the converter? Granted that also makes heat but can be dissipated through a decent cooler. Also what is the fluid temp while driving around....nicely?
Give Level 10 a call and see if they have any ideas
http://www.levelten.com/
With the amount of power do you have enough stall in the converter? Granted that also makes heat but can be dissipated through a decent cooler. Also what is the fluid temp while driving around....nicely?