Lancer Evolution XI goes hybrid [merge]
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 3
From: Butt**** Nowhere
I would love a turbo diesel Evo. Prodigious amounts of torque is always good!
On diesel, the amount of boost you can run is not limited like petrol. The limit is the engine's ability to hold itself together.
On diesel, the amount of boost you can run is not limited like petrol. The limit is the engine's ability to hold itself together.
maybe they can produce a lightweight diesel block, but that would be bigger news than what has been reported. So the weight of the diesel, the batteries, the electric motors, they have got some serious engineering to do.
on the other hand, for a mid sized car, the idea has some real merit. For that matter I've been thinking this would make a good pickup combination/ small truck. Front drive diesel with a rear electric assist, predominately at from zero speed. Remove the rear axle, with motors at the wheel wells. The bed could be lowered quite a bit without the axle. Noise at stop lights and drive throughs could be killed with the diesel off.
On the evo maybe they should consider a 2 cycle with a low speed electric motor assist.
on the other hand, for a mid sized car, the idea has some real merit. For that matter I've been thinking this would make a good pickup combination/ small truck. Front drive diesel with a rear electric assist, predominately at from zero speed. Remove the rear axle, with motors at the wheel wells. The bed could be lowered quite a bit without the axle. Noise at stop lights and drive throughs could be killed with the diesel off.
On the evo maybe they should consider a 2 cycle with a low speed electric motor assist.
what I don't get is, Mitsubishi is the underdog of Car Manufacturers right now, they're doing bad, pretty much everywhere... They've been re-doing themselves and their cars since 2006 when the Prototype X was announced... they have a long way to go, there's a lot of stuff to fix, a lot:
1 - They need a small B segment car, they need the UK-version Colt here, to compete with the Versa, Fit, Yaris.
2 - They need a 5th Gen. Eclipse, and it needs a fwd for the average Joe and an AWD+turbocharged for the rest of us. "TC-SST'ing" all their cars will allow them to develop and service this transmission more and it will eventually lower its price...
3 - They need to kill the galant, kill it with fire, and let it come back from the ashes (like a Phoenix, lol) as a brand-new galant with new styling, new drivetrain, awd for god sake, and maybe tc-sst.
4 - AWD on all the cars, all of them, as an option
5 - They need a pick-up... as long as there's people that use pick-ups for work, they need a pickup that can compete.
once all that is done, and they've reached their goal of selling 100,000 cars yearly here on USA, then they can go ahead and:
6 - do some crazy R&D on the Evo and take it to the next level.
7 - Prove that their icon car can hold its own... talk all you want about it, advertise it, boast on it, brag about it, advertise, even lie about it like most car makers, say that it is better than all the other cars and specify why, throw it in the 'Ring and post times, break records, bring FQ-versions to US... jesus christ, why can't they do all of this????
7 - Work on a 3KGT rebirth... do your ES, GTS, Ralliart versions of all your cars and maybe even "Evolution" versions of a Galant, Eclipse and Outlander... again, Evo is just a version of one of their cars... except for the fact that the word "Evo" has a lot of history in itself... but work on a 3KGT rebirth and pit it against the upcoming RX7, the GT-R, the Vette, etc...
is it just me or does Mitsubishi has no idea wtf they're doing? is it just me or do they have some really really smart engineers, and some really, really dumb administration?
it boggles the mind to think a company with so much talent (those working on the VR4s GSX and Evos for the last 3 decades) has such incompetent decision-making morons
1 - They need a small B segment car, they need the UK-version Colt here, to compete with the Versa, Fit, Yaris.
2 - They need a 5th Gen. Eclipse, and it needs a fwd for the average Joe and an AWD+turbocharged for the rest of us. "TC-SST'ing" all their cars will allow them to develop and service this transmission more and it will eventually lower its price...
3 - They need to kill the galant, kill it with fire, and let it come back from the ashes (like a Phoenix, lol) as a brand-new galant with new styling, new drivetrain, awd for god sake, and maybe tc-sst.
4 - AWD on all the cars, all of them, as an option
5 - They need a pick-up... as long as there's people that use pick-ups for work, they need a pickup that can compete.
once all that is done, and they've reached their goal of selling 100,000 cars yearly here on USA, then they can go ahead and:
6 - do some crazy R&D on the Evo and take it to the next level.
7 - Prove that their icon car can hold its own... talk all you want about it, advertise it, boast on it, brag about it, advertise, even lie about it like most car makers, say that it is better than all the other cars and specify why, throw it in the 'Ring and post times, break records, bring FQ-versions to US... jesus christ, why can't they do all of this????
7 - Work on a 3KGT rebirth... do your ES, GTS, Ralliart versions of all your cars and maybe even "Evolution" versions of a Galant, Eclipse and Outlander... again, Evo is just a version of one of their cars... except for the fact that the word "Evo" has a lot of history in itself... but work on a 3KGT rebirth and pit it against the upcoming RX7, the GT-R, the Vette, etc...
is it just me or does Mitsubishi has no idea wtf they're doing? is it just me or do they have some really really smart engineers, and some really, really dumb administration?
it boggles the mind to think a company with so much talent (those working on the VR4s GSX and Evos for the last 3 decades) has such incompetent decision-making morons
Last edited by jazket; Jun 12, 2010 at 01:28 PM.
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 3
From: Butt**** Nowhere
Mitsubishi is not stupid. Their automobile division is but a small fragment of the Mitsubishi Heavy Empire.
I would happily trade my current evo in for a diesel version of it anyday.
Once again, UNLIMITED boost on diesel! The limit is the block.
I would happily trade my current evo in for a diesel version of it anyday.
Once again, UNLIMITED boost on diesel! The limit is the block.
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,815
Likes: 24
From: Davidson, NC
I hope someone at Mitsubishi reads this.
I cannot help but think they could do minor changes and make the next chassis Evo incredible.
The thing this car really needs to do is lose weight. A new chassis that is similar weight of the CT9A chassis would be great. Granted the economy is tough to navigate around, but these changes could be great for fuel economy as well as performance:
-Reduce curb weight to approx 3250 pounds.
-Retain 4B11, but have slight changes (better pistons, ring lands that are not questionable, slightly upsize turbo, etc)
-Add a new 6 speed manual that is very robust, but has a tall sixth gear for cruising. This together with the less weight could easily propel this car to much closer to 30mpg, and save a ton of money not having to do the R&D on a new engine that nobody is going to want.
-Nicer interior bits. Some aluminum or CF trim
I think these changes would have a profound effect on the performance, perception, and allow it to return better fuel economy.
What is not to like about this idea? The 4B11 has a ton of potential, its only been in service 3 years. The 4G63 was in service for around 20 years. There is a lot more that can be extracted from the 4B11, don't chuck it all now. Other than the economy, the X is not selling as well as it could because it is overweight, has very short gearing, and styling that leaves some unsatisfied.
You can do it, Mitsu! Continue the Evo on the right way, don't flush money down the drain on something that is destined to fail.
I cannot help but think they could do minor changes and make the next chassis Evo incredible.
The thing this car really needs to do is lose weight. A new chassis that is similar weight of the CT9A chassis would be great. Granted the economy is tough to navigate around, but these changes could be great for fuel economy as well as performance:
-Reduce curb weight to approx 3250 pounds.
-Retain 4B11, but have slight changes (better pistons, ring lands that are not questionable, slightly upsize turbo, etc)
-Add a new 6 speed manual that is very robust, but has a tall sixth gear for cruising. This together with the less weight could easily propel this car to much closer to 30mpg, and save a ton of money not having to do the R&D on a new engine that nobody is going to want.
-Nicer interior bits. Some aluminum or CF trim
I think these changes would have a profound effect on the performance, perception, and allow it to return better fuel economy.
What is not to like about this idea? The 4B11 has a ton of potential, its only been in service 3 years. The 4G63 was in service for around 20 years. There is a lot more that can be extracted from the 4B11, don't chuck it all now. Other than the economy, the X is not selling as well as it could because it is overweight, has very short gearing, and styling that leaves some unsatisfied.
You can do it, Mitsu! Continue the Evo on the right way, don't flush money down the drain on something that is destined to fail.
If you honestly think about it the small displacement turbo petrol engine gets great mileage on the highway already. I know I got 30MPG on the highway multiple times with my VIII. It's the stop and go around town that kills the average. Using the KERS for that would really help out.
Anyway while we are making suggestions for the next Evo here is what I would like them to consider along with Seth's advice.
- Better use of space all the way around. You took a car (CT9A) that had a bigger backseat than a 3 and fantastic trunk and ruined all that. The beauty of the 7-9 was that it was totally practical while being incredibly capable. The X lost a little of that for me.
- Nicer materials inside, I know the money goes mostly to go fast bits but, at around $40K for an MR I expect a much nicer cabin. I'm not asking for anything over the top. Think something like VW R32 styling and materials.
- Visually separate the car more from the Lancer and Ralliart. I want to instantly recognize an Evo when I see one, not the current "Is that an Evo? Oh no it's a Lancer" guessing game I play currently.
- A little drag reduction along with the previously mentioned weight reduction would also help the fuel economy and performance as well.
Last edited by hotrod2448; Jun 12, 2010 at 06:24 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
I am real curious to see 1. If it comes out as a diesel and this isnt all just jibber jabber. 2. If it does well. People excited about insane torque are forgetting that Mitsu cant build a strong trans for ****. Sure you might be able to make 600tq but only after you've invested 3-5k on building the trans.
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,815
Likes: 24
From: Davidson, NC
I am real curious to see 1. If it comes out as a diesel and this isnt all just jibber jabber. 2. If it does well. People excited about insane torque are forgetting that Mitsu cant build a strong trans for ****. Sure you might be able to make 600tq but only after you've invested 3-5k on building the trans.
Anyway, aren't guys currently making that kind of torque rebuilding their transmissions? I don't really see how it's any different.
Not sure how the X is now, but they should be using some sort of Electronic Boost Control or ECU Boost Control. Then there should be a settings for "Fuel Economy" which remaps the engine power and lowers the boost to some X setting which should increase the fuel economy. Reducing weight should also be a priority.
i cant believe how many people on this forum are still living in the 80's. Adapt or die. High torque/high efficiency diesel meshed with a hybrid assist could be an amazing combo, and both technologies have come a long way in the past several years. Let some of the world's brightest engineerings mesh the two and you really can't expect anything less than awesome
It's like crying about e85 before anyone tried it
It's like crying about e85 before anyone tried it
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
From: ATLANTA
sometimes i think mitsu has given up n their cars devision.. i mean.. they just dont make any good decisions marketing wize.. subi is capitalizing on this now and with the 2011 WRX.STI sedan that will both trump the X.. is mistu gonna upgrade the X and ralli art to compete? i fear they will not..
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
From: ATLANTA
what I don't get is, Mitsubishi is the underdog of Car Manufacturers right now, they're doing bad, pretty much everywhere... They've been re-doing themselves and their cars since 2006 when the Prototype X was announced... they have a long way to go, there's a lot of stuff to fix, a lot:
1 - They need a small B segment car, they need the UK-version Colt here, to compete with the Versa, Fit, Yaris.
2 - They need a 5th Gen. Eclipse, and it needs a fwd for the average Joe and an AWD+turbocharged for the rest of us. "TC-SST'ing" all their cars will allow them to develop and service this transmission more and it will eventually lower its price...
3 - They need to kill the galant, kill it with fire, and let it come back from the ashes (like a Phoenix, lol) as a brand-new galant with new styling, new drivetrain, awd for god sake, and maybe tc-sst.
4 - AWD on all the cars, all of them, as an option
5 - They need a pick-up... as long as there's people that use pick-ups for work, they need a pickup that can compete.
once all that is done, and they've reached their goal of selling 100,000 cars yearly here on USA, then they can go ahead and:
6 - do some crazy R&D on the Evo and take it to the next level.
7 - Prove that their icon car can hold its own... talk all you want about it, advertise it, boast on it, brag about it, advertise, even lie about it like most car makers, say that it is better than all the other cars and specify why, throw it in the 'Ring and post times, break records, bring FQ-versions to US... jesus christ, why can't they do all of this????
7 - Work on a 3KGT rebirth... do your ES, GTS, Ralliart versions of all your cars and maybe even "Evolution" versions of a Galant, Eclipse and Outlander... again, Evo is just a version of one of their cars... except for the fact that the word "Evo" has a lot of history in itself... but work on a 3KGT rebirth and pit it against the upcoming RX7, the GT-R, the Vette, etc...
is it just me or does Mitsubishi has no idea wtf they're doing? is it just me or do they have some really really smart engineers, and some really, really dumb administration?
it boggles the mind to think a company with so much talent (those working on the VR4s GSX and Evos for the last 3 decades) has such incompetent decision-making morons
1 - They need a small B segment car, they need the UK-version Colt here, to compete with the Versa, Fit, Yaris.
2 - They need a 5th Gen. Eclipse, and it needs a fwd for the average Joe and an AWD+turbocharged for the rest of us. "TC-SST'ing" all their cars will allow them to develop and service this transmission more and it will eventually lower its price...
3 - They need to kill the galant, kill it with fire, and let it come back from the ashes (like a Phoenix, lol) as a brand-new galant with new styling, new drivetrain, awd for god sake, and maybe tc-sst.
4 - AWD on all the cars, all of them, as an option
5 - They need a pick-up... as long as there's people that use pick-ups for work, they need a pickup that can compete.
once all that is done, and they've reached their goal of selling 100,000 cars yearly here on USA, then they can go ahead and:
6 - do some crazy R&D on the Evo and take it to the next level.
7 - Prove that their icon car can hold its own... talk all you want about it, advertise it, boast on it, brag about it, advertise, even lie about it like most car makers, say that it is better than all the other cars and specify why, throw it in the 'Ring and post times, break records, bring FQ-versions to US... jesus christ, why can't they do all of this????
7 - Work on a 3KGT rebirth... do your ES, GTS, Ralliart versions of all your cars and maybe even "Evolution" versions of a Galant, Eclipse and Outlander... again, Evo is just a version of one of their cars... except for the fact that the word "Evo" has a lot of history in itself... but work on a 3KGT rebirth and pit it against the upcoming RX7, the GT-R, the Vette, etc...
is it just me or does Mitsubishi has no idea wtf they're doing? is it just me or do they have some really really smart engineers, and some really, really dumb administration?
it boggles the mind to think a company with so much talent (those working on the VR4s GSX and Evos for the last 3 decades) has such incompetent decision-making morons
great post well though out ... and the one problem is money..!!!!!!!! corporate sees failure and does not want to invest heavily in it so they make cheap decisions that cause more failure.. and eventually death ..... just 6 years agoe hyundai and kia were where mistu is now .. how did they change and come back ? who helped them? can or will mitsu be willing to make those chages?
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
From: ATLANTA
i cant believe how many people on this forum are still living in the 80's. Adapt or die. High torque/high efficiency diesel meshed with a hybrid assist could be an amazing combo, and both technologies have come a long way in the past several years. Let some of the world's brightest engineerings mesh the two and you really can't expect anything less than awesome
It's like crying about e85 before anyone tried it
It's like crying about e85 before anyone tried it