The Rom I flashed was the Tephra ROM, with my MAF scaling/compensation/Size, Injector Scaling, Injector Battery Latency, Accel Enrichment vs RPM (as of this morning), Best guess Fuel and Timing Maps, Knock Settings like Mitsu.kids, all idle settings, My open loop thresholds, lean spool off, all "cel fixes" per senate, and my rev limit.

I see anywhere from 3-15 counts of knock this morning as the car runs through the 2250 rpm area, at about 30 load. If I just keep accelerating past it, the knock decays down to zilch by about 2500. Timing in that area is anywhere from 16-19, looks like the ecu tries to pull timing, but then puts it back, sort of just dips timing but then it comes back.

I do think I was wrong to use the evo accel enrichment, because that seemed to make me run very very lean for some reason on cold startup. I'm used to seeing 11.5 afr's until the car warms up, and then oscillation at 14.7....but with evo accel enrich, I was seeing oscillation almost right away during low load accel, but still 11.5's at idle. The evo rom also jumped into closed loop WAAAY earlier than my lancer rom does. This morning it was barely warmed up, and started bobbin the AFR's, which concerns me because I thought the forced open loop below X temp was a safety measure.

 

You'd think I would be safer. From what I have read, either my timing is too retarded, and the fuel isn't given enough time to burn at that RPM, causing it to pop later in the exhaust and set the knock sensor off...but I don't hear any sort of backfire or anything. I do hear some rattles though, which I've always had, since my lancer seems like it could just fall to pieces any moment as far as body panels and interior and such.

My other thought is that there is some sort of resonating sound or frequency I hit right in that RPM range, and the evo knock settings aren't calibrated for it. But, if that were the case, then everyone would see this issue....and it seems the only other "knock dude" is you, everyone else claims the knock, even stock evo knock settings, work great. Just as an FWIW, I put the evo knock sensor settings in and saw even worse numbers at 2200 rpm up to 2400, like....as high as 36 I think, almost always at 30 load. I'm going to make changes to timing in that range, and just see if I can make it better somehow. I may "steal" your timing map, and see if it works any better, it looks a lot more smooth, and it's also scaled for less wasted space. I suppose I can just keep adjusting mine as well, maybe I'll give both a try. The reason I say borrow yours is that you have like....15 more timing in some of those problem areas than I do now, so maybe mine is way too reduced.

Also, the knock does pick up if I'm going up a slight incline (don't kid yourself, not many actual hills in texas) but if the car is under load, it's more prone to knock at 2250 than going downhill, which makes me think it's timing related.

 

Now your seeing ALL of the probs im having, rediculous knock counts... I have to drive so slow on on and off ramps now because as soon as i get into open loop (2,500+) and my AFR drops to around 12ish i get retarded knock, like 8-19 counts.. so scary.. Im not sure what to do also. The only way im knock free is when i pull timing up top like wayy alot, (o- (-)4 timing in WOT its SOOO slow and wont move for ****, but i wont get any knock at all and my AFR are lean. thought it was because it was because i was in boost in closed loop, so i did a foced open loop test and still crazy knock. I adjusted my MAF scaling to stock at forced open loop and still some small counts but nothing like the 20 i was getting, but now i stay in the 14-15 AFR in boost and thats not good, so not sure what to do with the fuel issue. I also have a 17+ AFR at cold idle until the 02 sensor feedback starts in and it slowly decreese to 14.2-15.2 ocilations.

I dont know if changing the MAF scaling is whats giving me knock, or if its the fuel (11-12 AFR)? I doubt its the fuel because i had adjusted it so it was around 11-12 AFR in boost climbing to 5 PSI but AS SOON as i got into open loop and the fuel dropped, i got 5-8- 16-18-17-20- 22 counts. So i think it has something to do with MAF scaling somehow, because people have no problem with running fuel as low as 11 in boost. And im too nervouse to mess with the knock settings so i leave them alone. I just dont know what else to try? I have tried timing, but i cant move because its so retarded, i have tried MAF scaling, but without scaling it i stay lean in boost, i have tried richening my fuel map, but without maf scaling it doesnt take effect. Hmmm...what else shall i try?

 

To tell you the truth mitsu....what my best guess here is that although you seem to have a "tephra" rom, you sure do have the tell tale signs of the base lancer rom trying to accommodate boost. Although I had bad knock when I put the tephra rom on....I did see an extremely increased ability to control AFR's. When I go into open loop, the AFR's literally "SNAP" to almost exactly what is in the fuel map. Yours do not seem to be doing that, but more mirroring what I saw on the base lancer rom, where AFR's drop suddenly then bob back up to 13-14 when you push the accel a little more, then drops again if you let off.....

So, I dont know how to confirm any of this, but what it seems, is what we(I) initially thought about the MAF being not set up for boost, really is incorrect. And what we (everyone else) said about the evo ROM being setup for boost is true. The crazy thing though, is like...with your rom, you got all the knock sensitivity, but none of the killer AFR control.....

I dunno, I'm putting timing back where it was with my initial "base lancer" rom, and going to see how it runs knockwise. I think in my case, it's certainly not phantom, because timing adjustments affect it. I think the same is true for you, if you pull timing and it goes away, pull the timing! I don't know what you mean about "it's not as fast" or whatever, but safety first dude. Get it clean and knock free, then get the AFR's right, then once you can get WOT pulls in at that setup....THEN advance timing for power. But see if you can't get knock free first and foremost.

 

What i ment about "not as fast" was that if i was pushing the pedal even cruising i would have to give it 80% or more throttle to accel.. it sucked and gas milage prob too I know saftey first, ill re-adjust my timing. Can you send me your ROM/ XML so i can compare it to mine?? I wonder if your right, maybe i just have bigger maps but lancer settings. If you dont mind so i can compare?

Also i just checked my MAF scaling compared to my "tephra rom" and there the EXACT same values. MAF scalling, compensation (smoothing), sensor filtering were the exact same as my stock lancer rom. However my high/low octane timing and fuel maps wee wayyy bigger and had different values in them compared to my stock lancer ROM.

I think i may just try re-flashing the stock "lancer auto tephra v7" ROM back into the car, and do like 3 pulls to log, then see how they turn out, if i get knock, ill back off timing until there is none, also ill logg the wideband, see if it gets rich any. If not ill first adjust my high octane fuel map to peg rich and see if i get any results, if still none then work on scaling the MAF sensor slowly again? try re-tuning this way maybe?

 

Just as a precaution, don't put your e-mail in a post....spam will follow.

My ROM isn't gonna do so hot, but I'll e-mail you what I had this morning. It's for a manual mind you, so obvously don't flash it or anything...but it's on the way. I don't really understand what's going on with the 80% throttle thing, as it somewhat makes sense if timing is pulled....but when do you see knock, low load? or WOT?

Also, as far as the changes you mentioned....if changing maf scaling messed you up, put it back. Where ever you were with no knock, lol, go there! The MAF scaling is really only necessary if you just can't richen the mix up enough, like the problem I had....but I discovered later, that even though I could richen it up....if I gave it a little more throttle it would just lean out. The same was true if I scaled for more throttle....if I only pushed say 60% throttle....then it'd be pig rich.

I'm thinking MAF scaling is somewhat of a bandaid, and that the real answer lies in getting the values to pull successfully from the AFRMap or "fuel map". I think the issue I saw with you was you had 10.1 or something in the "logged AFRMAP" but the actual wideband data was more in the 14 range, right? If that's the case, sounds like maybe there is some sort of bottom "floor" to fuel delivery in the stock lancer rom that is holding you back from fueling when you need it. Log some with that wideband cable when you get it, and that'll be most informative.

 

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So in your ROM the fuel maps look alot nicer than what i have now, way more rich alot earlyer than what i have. even the timing, everything in your rom looks alot better than mine, its got more definition in the lower RPMs as well. Also your MAF size is 215.7 g/s like mine (stock lancer) but scaling has some sort of adder in it already, your values are so much, like WAY higher than mine, i wonder if this is why as soon as you give it gas the fuel is there?. I might try to re-scale my fuel and timing maps to have the definition you do in the lower RPM's and maybe copy the fuel map and see if this helps. Another thing to note is on the MAF sensor filtering, both my tephra rom and your rom use the same scaling, yet you have values of "high"49152 and "low"57344, same as my stock lancer base rom. But my tephra rom has these values "high"192 and "low"224????? whats that about??

EDIT:: i rescaled my maps to match what you have, alot more definition than what i was running, also i used the timing/ and fuel maps in the rom you sent me "timing changes" they look more healthy also than what i had in my rom. Ill log tonite as well see how my fuel looks. I also copied some "startup" settings as yours are diffrent than mine and currently i have to keep the gas pedal all the way pushed to the floor for about 4-5 sec to get it to start when cold, maybe the settings you have will help my warm start ups

 

I can comment on some of that, some i am confused. The MAF values are probably the same, but they have "with MAF adder". If you choose to change the scaling on them to match yours, they will be identical.

Same with MAF Sensor filtering, check the scaling, and make sure they match up. Sometimes when you don't have the other scaling available, you just have to add a new one, and then set them both to match. Screenshot it if you want, but I'm fairly sure the scaling is the issue.

As far as maps, the fuel map is basically the evo map shifted over from where they would start boost, over to where I will start boost. The timing map on the D rom is like, basically a transcription of the timing i had in my stock rom adjusted for boost. The "E-dangerous timing" one has the timing that 03lances uses, as well as his scaling.....but shifted basically down and to the left, so that it's not quite as agressive. I'm doing that to compensate for the increased load he sees due to the 399 maf, as opposed to my stock lancer MAF.

 

Ok, gotcha, they look alot better than what i have now so im going to give em a shot, it looks like the "lancer auto tephra v7" rom was just a rom with lancer settings just ALOT bigger so it gives you room to tune for boost.

So, im going to try the fuel/ timing maps from the "E-dangerous timing" and see how things go, everything else in my ROM is set to stock settings. Hopefully ill get a lil less knock. When are you giving these settings a try? Ill be off work at 5, so i might be able to flash the car on my way home, and take some logs.

 

Thoughts on this? The stock evo one, or the stock tephra rather, but they are the same in a stock 8 rom....has load maxed on those first few low RPM spots, and only starts to lower farther into the upper rpm. I had it set more sensative on the right......what's the dill though, should I leave it stock? 03lances left his stock on this part...maybe I will too, perhaps the evo sensor knows there will be some low rpm knock and just filters that out all together since it's not harmful. Basically what I read is that knock sucks in higher rpm, and will cause dmg. Lower RPM not so much, but left unchecked it will perhaps cause some engine problems.

So, the highlighted area is where I would pick up knock if I left the settings stock....makes some sense, but I'd prefer to pick it all up until I'm sure it's not harmful. Any ideas how that table works? Will my PC not even pick it up, or will the ECU just not correct for it if it's below those loads?

 

Actually, if you are not seeing the same loads as me, the timing will be dangerous...I don't know how different our load is, as I don't fully understand your Rom (or mine for that matter), but what I do know is if I see 80 load, but your car registers it as 60 load....then your timing would be too advanced at that point. If you do flash that timing map, be extra certain that any knock you see/or are alerted to by your PC, you respect. If there is a drastic change in timing, from what you have, it could be BAD. compare it to yours and see just how different it is. If it's too different, don't make the swap.

Just on a side note, your knock sensitivity filter also goes

40
40
40
40
50
50
50
50

Do you ever pick up knock below 40 in your evoscan logs?

 

I would leave it stock for now, and try to make other changes, keep the knock settings the last option in mind for saftey. But thats really interesting though, i wonder if this explains why i see so much knock compared to the stock lancer ROM?

EDIT: below 40 load no i did not see any knock, all my knock seems to be 80+ load so far

EDIT: my timing was actually a little more advanced than the one your running, ill keep a very close eye out when logging

 

Yeah, below the thresholds, I see none as well. All the other roms I've looked at have it stock. I edited that table thinking "threshold is 159, so I'll set it to 70, because it's probably calibrated for when the evo goes into boost, but I go in earlier, so I'll just turn it down....no harm in seeing more knock." Well, now I see why others aren't seeing the same low RPM high knock counts....but my Q is this, wtf guys, is this dangerous and you are all just ignoring it? Or is it harmless, and I'm just being overly cautious?

 

Im with you here, im way over cautious, my lancer is my baby, and i dont want to fk it up. So you think its safe to set it to 70 load instead of the initial 40?

Whoa whoa wait, the knock table with 159 maxed in the lower RPMS is stock? mine came with the 40's and 50's like you just posted