ALright, ill try to see if i can buy a 399 MAF when i get paid next week. Here are the logs with stock MAF settings, only changed the fuel and timing maps to match hornstars, not as much knock as before but it still wont STAY rich in boost as it quickly tapers off. Also my MAF compensation was different from yours hornstar, i changed mine to match to see if it helps, i double checked there the same scaling and endian, ill have to do some pulls at lunch time to see if it helps any

 

Haven't looked at the logs, but if MAF compensation is different, either someone adjusted yours, or the scaling is wrong.

Just FYI, I see the problem you are seeing, of leaning out when I'm on the base lancer rom, but haven't really "gotten on it" like that with the evo, but my initial implication is that the MAF is NOT the isssue, and I already ordered a 399....so, can't be worse, right? But may have been wasted monies too, meh.

 

So this morning I got in the car, flashed my newest edits of a ROM, and fired it up. Everything seemed normal, backed down the driveway....started to put her in first, let of the brake, jumped over to the accel....and that little hooker was STUCK, like I couldn't push it, back to the brake....not sure what the deal was. I put the parking brake on, took it out of gear, tried to rev the engine, and it just went apespit, reving up to 3k, 4k, 5k....so I turned the key off.

Unsure what was going on, I tried to see if I could perhaps just flash that same rom again or something....and my PC wouldn't connect either, kept saying "try to reconnect your usb cable" which never happens to me.

Anyhow, long story short, the accelerator cable was stuck under that battery tray...no idea how/why, but, meh...it's workin' now. I'm going to spend some quality time with the knock settings this weekend, but I'm thinking it's less sensitive in those lower RPM ranges for a reason.

 

Whoa man haha, glad you fixed that About the MAF. Yes im not sure but the MAF compensation table was diffrent from my tephra rom. I copied over all the MAF setting you had in your rom, with the same scaling so there should be no issues. I have completly re-done my timing map way smooth, but i kept the fuel maps from your rom the same. i was seeing around 8-10 advanced in boost wich might be a little mich, i backed it down to 2-5 and the whole timing map is really smooth now. So you dont think its the MAF sensor causing the car to go lean into boost? Do you think adjusting the MAF sensor is whats givin me crazy knock counts at low load?

 

guys let me make a suggestion get the evo maf!!! trust me it will make tuning easier "quoted by 03lance" unless your trying to understand the maf scaling then I understand but it will solve your problems when tuning later down the road

 

I know it will make it easyer thats why im going to get one next week, but i still want to understand how everything works, im sure there is still a way to make it work with the stock MAF sensor without getting crazy knock counts..22+ still not sure if its false knock or not

 

I think about the MAF, it can't hurt. Is it going to help, probably will make it easier as others have said...it's just one more piece that's "meant for an evo" that probably will help. Especially since we have the scalings of a car that is used under boost.

As far as the scaling giving you huge knock...I don't think that's an accurate statement. I think the things that cause knock are - Timing, Boost, and AFR. If you're in closed loop, pull timing, if you're in boost, get AFR's right, pull timing, or lower boost.

 

Thats what i thought the only thing that could cause knock is excessive fuel, or lack of, to much advanced timing, boosting in closed loop, and too much timing. i can easily have fuel where i want it adjusting the MAF sensor, i just get stupid knock. literally tho it does not make sense. Right now im seeing 1-4 every now and then in pulls, if i do a WOT pull or anything over 50% i dont really se knock, but if i do a slow pull into boost i get some knock its weird. But i dont understand how say i normally can do a pull and wont get any knock, and its a lean mix, when i scale the MAF to give me some fuel i get retaded knock in th teens and higher, is this false knock?? here are some logs, stock MAF settings, just revised timing and fuel maps, if i hammer down on the throttle im able to have fuel in boost, but leans out to 12.3 or so by 5 psi. check em out if you want! if adjusting the MAF sensor can only help the car in boost im goin to adjust it to be right where i want it (doesnt take much adjustment) But i want to be sure the knock is not real and can be dismissed.

I cant drive my car even commuting at -7-10 timing so i get "no knock" its just un-realistic, because technically speaking if i were getting knock at 7 timing advanced ( what timing is now ) and am only getting 4 max, but then i scaled the MAF sensor to give more fuel (11.5) and kept my timing the same in boost (7 max) if i got 18 counts of knock i need to retard timing by every knock count pull 3 degrees of timing correct? thats nuts, thats like -54 dude haha, even if i pulled timing like 7-8 degrees, thats 0 timing advanced whenever im in open loop, zero timing advanced if you have ever felt timing so low is just so laggish i could floor the gas and it would take forever just to get up to speed, im in an auto, i cant switch gears, see what im sayin? sorry for the essay

 

I do see what you say. As far as real vs fake knock...there are 2 points to be made, 1 is that everyone using a stock evo rom or a stock tephra rom with their tables copied in, that I know of, is flat out ignoring ANY knock below 2000 rpm, and only things above 60-80 load from 2500 up.....so, the sounds setting off your knock sensor may be expected, or they may be dangerous and everyone else is just ignoring them. No answer there, I haven't determined yet. I can say I am going to do extensive testing on knock this weekend, setting all my "ignore" ranges to 0load, and just getting a baseline of what's going on. As far as dropping fuel in, and seeing more knock. That could mean 2 things that I am aware of, 1 is too much fuel so it's combusting later on in the exhaust or something, or the other would be incorrect wideband data, and maybe a third would be some sort of exhaust leak, and forth would be a noise transmission/clutch/driveline. And maybe fifth could be general engine noise or the turbo spool causing some sort of scratching noise, like that metal sound you talked about once before.

Ok, long story short....I gotta check your logs, but wideband data will also help, so as soon as you get the cable, you'll be in a better situation than you are now, just for that fact of being able to review your AFR's.


*edit* after checking logs. I don't see any problems with those logs, is the car un-drivable right now due to timing? The only knock I see is at 60-90 load, and the reason I'm guessing is that at 60 load your timing sort of swoops upward, then back down later on. You are rightthough, I don't know squat about driving an automatic.

 

Thank you for reviewing my logs, car is drivable now becase i have incresed timing a bit, these logs look ok, im not having crazy knock at low load, because i have MAF scaling stock, i know it must be something else, but, when i touch my MAF scaling and adjust for fuel i get knock at low loads.

 

OK....so ? then, what exactly are you changing in your MAF scaling. Because it goes by airflow hz, and if you change 400+ for example....but your car sees 200 at low load, then it just doesn't make sense how that would cause knock. If you are pasting in evo scaling, then that is a whole diff ballgame as far as cause->effect....but I still dont' see how in closed loop, you'd see knock like that. You are in closed loop when you see the knock, right? Not mashing on the gas or anything?

 

Correct, i will take some logs tonite to show you what im talking about, i start off at stock values, but i note when i start going lean vs RPM and i make changes to maf scaling, typically for me its right around 600+ HZ i start going lean again, in open loop. The problem i have however i get high knock counts at low load, say i used to get 2 counts of knock accel at 40% TPS in closed loop, after adjustment, i will now see around 13 or so at 40%... i know this does not make any sense thats why im going to logg this for you to see, ill wire the wideband tonite also so you can see my AFR's

 

Well, do this too...if you go lean, drop your fuel map in that area and see if it helps.

 

Will do! Ill keep you posted

 

I sold the buick, I sold the buick, nanner nanner boo boo, I sold the buick...