Haha, man that's just insulting! It sounds like someone with 99.9% experience 4G63 and 0.1% 4B11. There were teething issues tuning 2008 models, but a lot of that was the new engine with odd factory mapping that ran wildly higher timing stock mixed with newb/hack tuners whose crappy work eventually ousted them from the scene.

There are plenty of properly tuned 4B11s around here with 100% stock internals running well over 400whp and a ton of miles on the odometer: Breather mods, tuning, injectors, stock frame appearing turbo upgrade on pump gas. Well over 450 on E85, and that's not even cammed, which is good for another 15-20whp. Show me a few EJ257s that can do that for 75,000 miles.

The ultimate potential isn't as high as the 4G63 untapped, but the head flows infinitely better in the 4B11. It's nearly as potent a canvas, it just has to carry around a 3500 lb car.

And to totally flip flop on everything I just wrote, I have to defend the STI here. The new STI is head and shoulders the best yet as far as handling goes. Is it as good as an X as a pure driver's car? Not quite. But it's a way better platform for a racetrack than a Focus RS! A FWD turbo car can't manage traction for crap when upgraded.

There's a launch edition STI FB page, and the car is really good, but they are still seeing scary engine failures that don't make any sense, even stock. With the Evo gone next year, if my car was totaled, the STI would be my first replacement choice provided they put the new DI motor in it soon. I'm too skeered of the EJ257, even though the rest of the car is really good now.

 

To be on topic of an AWD RS, my domestic car dislike runs deep, and I don't hold a special spot for Ford. But that's not being fair. I drove a Fiesta ST and thought it was a nice little torquey car. I wouldn't call it the best performance FWD ever made by a longshot (the ITR still holds that spot), but it was really nice. If Ford can sprinkle some magic on the Focus RS AWD by giving it big power upgrade headroom like Evos always have enjoyed, target the weight around 3300 lbs max, and inject some of the tossability the Fiesta has, they'd have a complete winner on their hands.

 

Looks like a good car to replace the evo to then rereplace with an evo.

 

It is clear that the sports car market is heating up. There are a lot of really exciting cars, and new technology, on the horizon. Ford's benchmark should really be the old Sierra RS Cosworth and Escort RS Cosworth. Which had 2658 & 2811 lb. curb weights respectively.

IMO, if the new Focus RS weighs 3300+ lbs. it will be just another hot hatchback, not a true sports car.

 

I think the community is getting better with figuring out the formula, and while 400 whp on stock internals is becoming common, making big power still looks to be more of a challenge than on the 4G63. Seems to mainly center around an issue with heat retention that hasn't been fully figured out. But I do love the 4B11T head.

Can you name any late model 300+ bhp cars that weigh less than 3300 lbs? Unfortunately, it seems that weight is creeping up everywhere.

 

Boxster S
C6 and C7 Corvettes (barely)



The Focus ST is about 3200 lbs. Seems pretty unlikely that an AWD RS wouldn't add 200-300 lbs to that without some significant (and expensive) dieting.

 

I know, it sucks.
The base Corvette slips under that by 2 lbs. It's one car that really hasn't piled on the fat with chassis updates, but this one is definitely getting up there in heft.

Edit: Reaction time smoked at the tree by that Jefe.

 

Lotus continues to make light weight sports cars in the 250-300hp range. They have some pretty sexy new models coming soon too.

 

This has been my beef with Ford for years. The head of the SVO group is an accomplished track nut and has staunchly defended FWD and the revo knuckle etc and yes he is right. A good driver/racer and trackday enthusiast will take less weight, simpler drivetrain and produce faster lap times all day long. Don't argue one bit.

On the street where most of us are condemned to driving it ****ing blows. If I hammer my 80hp Honda Fit trying to merge onto a fast busy street in the rain it will spin, put me in a dangerous position 1/2 in traffic and have to shift into 2nd and lug while the guy behind me slams on the brakes and waves his fists. My old ap1 s2000 would try to kill you merging into fast moving traffic, up an incline and god forbid with a tiny bit of moisture on the ground, but for an experienced in slow, out fast driver on the track its magical.

On the other hand the AWD cars in the performance segment are so much more fun, safe and practical as all weather, all condition sports cars for most drivers. If I see a hole in traffic, that evo will get me there 99% of the time and I can use all of the torque it has to offer to do it. For a performance street car it is no contest, no argument and no way most of the car buying performance enthusiast will not have a better experience.

Again racing competitively is a different story, that is about driver skill and honestly more about exploiting the rule book and light, simple and power are the final word.

If Ford would have sold me an AWD Escort I would have never bought and Evo and Ford missed an entire era of AWD performance because of that guys stupid resolve to keep the RS a "club car".

 

i ran an ELH to avoid problems. i didn't get to push the car long enough to know if it helped and i had no EGT gauge, so... as for the annoying sound, that never fully went away LOL. would be awesome if Ford did something right here, though. so much potential.

very. i had a boosted/methanol Integra Type R with around 350whp. with the LSD and 11:1 compression/etc it was a LOT of fun.

that's why i don't do Subarus. those engines...
the Evo X as a "pure driver's car"? not even close. it lost that title right around 2008.
as for the RS not being a decent platform for the race track? i can show you many FWD cars that kick *** all over the place. i know of a Honda CRX that ran 1:53 at BW CW13. not bad, if you ask me

good luck with that. with all the electronic nannies and safety features built into modern cars... i just don't see it happening. now.. if we can get a stripped down version with no Nav, power windows, etc? that would be promising!

 

I heard stripper... I'm in kaj..

 

For what it's worth, power windows at this juncture are both cheaper and lighter than mechanical windows.

 

I like how you think.

 

The MK7 Golf R is 297bhp and 3260lbs with AWD. Close enough.

 

Officially confirmed today, however no clear answer on whether it will be FWD or AWD. The second link suggests it will be FWD. If its been out on the ring, I'd think it be possible to estimate whether it was FWD or AWD. Sounds like it will be on display next month, so should have the answer at that time.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/mega-ho...d-for-america/

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...med-production