View Poll Results: Which buildup would influence where you buy parts from the most?
I own Buschur Racing parts and want an unlimited budget build.
142
29.96%
I do NOT own Buschur Racing parts and want an unlimited build.
153
32.28%
I own Buschur Racing parts and want a budget build.
72
15.19%
I do NOT own Buschur Racing parts and want a budget build.
107
22.57%
Voters: 474. You may not vote on this poll
Buschur Racing Car & Driver Super Four Challenge!
You don't want to give others any ideas, do you?
Evolving Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Gainesville, Fl
I voted for an ultimate build because I want Dave to start to get the respect he deserves from the Evo community. A lot of people will not appreciate budget made power as evidenced by the fact that people buy a titanium catback for the cost of an entire turbo back Buschur system. I think that the only way the public at large will take notice of what a great innovater Dave is, is to blow the doors off the competition.
This oughta get me some flames...
I saw this topic the other night and chose not to read all the posts - as well, Car and Driver had just pissed me off - again. I finally read their latest issue and they slammed their long-term Evo. Additionally, they couldn't get Vishnu parts to work - whether it was their independent installer or parts doesn't matter. Simply put, they suck. I have a subscription because it's $10 per year. That's going to end. I've been penning my hate-mail letter to the editor in my mind for days now.
Anyway, to the point, and this is the unpopular part.
First, David, beat the other Evos as long as they're not over-the-top pricewise. That would reflect a price-conscious build on BR's part. According to C&D history, Vishnu has 2 strikes now: failure at that last event and failure for their parts to come out shining in this last issue. But they're foremost in C&D readers' minds.
Second, analyze last event's results. I don't think I have the issue any longer. However, in there, the key areas of success will be found. I think attention to the Super-Tuner article should help as well. Is there truly time to be made on the road course? There may be, I'm just suggesting that there is already empirical evidence to be analyzed. Once analyzed, focus can be given above and beyond standard Stage 4 approach.
Third, in my opinion, don't make it a $70,000 car. Come in under $45K and kick all but the $70K+ and you're a success - but this is my mindset. Evo buyers started at $30-$35K, not $55-$60K.
Oh, and don't sweat the Elise - completely different car. I like the kid seat in my back seat and ability to haul crap from the grocery AND home improvement store all at once.
Tear it up, David!
... now I have to decide whether I keep the subscription 'til the article is published, dammit ...
I saw this topic the other night and chose not to read all the posts - as well, Car and Driver had just pissed me off - again. I finally read their latest issue and they slammed their long-term Evo. Additionally, they couldn't get Vishnu parts to work - whether it was their independent installer or parts doesn't matter. Simply put, they suck. I have a subscription because it's $10 per year. That's going to end. I've been penning my hate-mail letter to the editor in my mind for days now.
Anyway, to the point, and this is the unpopular part.
First, David, beat the other Evos as long as they're not over-the-top pricewise. That would reflect a price-conscious build on BR's part. According to C&D history, Vishnu has 2 strikes now: failure at that last event and failure for their parts to come out shining in this last issue. But they're foremost in C&D readers' minds.
Second, analyze last event's results. I don't think I have the issue any longer. However, in there, the key areas of success will be found. I think attention to the Super-Tuner article should help as well. Is there truly time to be made on the road course? There may be, I'm just suggesting that there is already empirical evidence to be analyzed. Once analyzed, focus can be given above and beyond standard Stage 4 approach.
Third, in my opinion, don't make it a $70,000 car. Come in under $45K and kick all but the $70K+ and you're a success - but this is my mindset. Evo buyers started at $30-$35K, not $55-$60K.
Oh, and don't sweat the Elise - completely different car. I like the kid seat in my back seat and ability to haul crap from the grocery AND home improvement store all at once.
Tear it up, David!
... now I have to decide whether I keep the subscription 'til the article is published, dammit ...
KazzEVO,
You and I are thinking alike on how to compete in this. I have went back and printed all of the articles I can find and read/saved them.
The ride/drive part of this event has no bearing on how you do in the race BUT the editors saying your car is noisey and sucks still hurts what the readers think about what you produce.
This last issue of C&D I loved and hated all at once. I don't like that they bad mouthed the long term EVO BUT the brakes are expensive and so is the synthetic oils and such for maintaining it. So what do you say? The stock clutch won't hold up to abuse so it has to be changed, again, what do you say? Most guys buying these realize they are basically buying a factory built race car and it required more maintainence. Hell there is a sticker on the door that tells you the tires wear out, that should be clue for everyone.
The part about having problems with Shiv's parts of course is the part I liked. I get tired of all the good publicity he gets. (yeah, I am like that) Reading it though I only believe that part of it was actually Shiv's fault. The tune he put in the computer I would say was too aggressive, maybe from not knowing what he could get away with on Michigan's octane, maybe the car got bad gas in it or maybe he just pushed the tune knowing it would be dyno'd and wanting to look good. The 02 sensor has to be the installers fault, I would think. Maybe the compression washer off the rear 02 was missing, maybe it wasn't tight, maybe the threads weren't perfect who knows. That was a BS thing to have happen, kind of like blowing off multiple i/c hoses though. Those dumb things kill you, had them happen to myself.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
You and I are thinking alike on how to compete in this. I have went back and printed all of the articles I can find and read/saved them.
The ride/drive part of this event has no bearing on how you do in the race BUT the editors saying your car is noisey and sucks still hurts what the readers think about what you produce.
This last issue of C&D I loved and hated all at once. I don't like that they bad mouthed the long term EVO BUT the brakes are expensive and so is the synthetic oils and such for maintaining it. So what do you say? The stock clutch won't hold up to abuse so it has to be changed, again, what do you say? Most guys buying these realize they are basically buying a factory built race car and it required more maintainence. Hell there is a sticker on the door that tells you the tires wear out, that should be clue for everyone.
The part about having problems with Shiv's parts of course is the part I liked. I get tired of all the good publicity he gets. (yeah, I am like that) Reading it though I only believe that part of it was actually Shiv's fault. The tune he put in the computer I would say was too aggressive, maybe from not knowing what he could get away with on Michigan's octane, maybe the car got bad gas in it or maybe he just pushed the tune knowing it would be dyno'd and wanting to look good. The 02 sensor has to be the installers fault, I would think. Maybe the compression washer off the rear 02 was missing, maybe it wasn't tight, maybe the threads weren't perfect who knows. That was a BS thing to have happen, kind of like blowing off multiple i/c hoses though. Those dumb things kill you, had them happen to myself.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
KazzEVO,
You and I are thinking alike on how to compete in this. I have went back and printed all of the articles I can find and read/saved them.
The ride/drive part of this event has no bearing on how you do in the race BUT the editors saying your car is noisey and sucks still hurts what the readers think about what you produce.
This last issue of C&D I loved and hated all at once. I don't like that they bad mouthed the long term EVO BUT the brakes are expensive and so is the synthetic oils and such for maintaining it. So what do you say? The stock clutch won't hold up to abuse so it has to be changed, again, what do you say? Most guys buying these realize they are basically buying a factory built race car and it required more maintainence. Hell there is a sticker on the door that tells you the tires wear out, that should be clue for everyone.
The part about having problems with Shiv's parts of course is the part I liked. I get tired of all the good publicity he gets. (yeah, I am like that) Reading it though I only believe that part of it was actually Shiv's fault. The tune he put in the computer I would say was too aggressive, maybe from not knowing what he could get away with on Michigan's octane, maybe the car got bad gas in it or maybe he just pushed the tune knowing it would be dyno'd and wanting to look good. The 02 sensor has to be the installers fault, I would think. Maybe the compression washer off the rear 02 was missing, maybe it wasn't tight, maybe the threads weren't perfect who knows. That was a BS thing to have happen, kind of like blowing off multiple i/c hoses though. Those dumb things kill you, had them happen to myself.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
You and I are thinking alike on how to compete in this. I have went back and printed all of the articles I can find and read/saved them.
The ride/drive part of this event has no bearing on how you do in the race BUT the editors saying your car is noisey and sucks still hurts what the readers think about what you produce.
This last issue of C&D I loved and hated all at once. I don't like that they bad mouthed the long term EVO BUT the brakes are expensive and so is the synthetic oils and such for maintaining it. So what do you say? The stock clutch won't hold up to abuse so it has to be changed, again, what do you say? Most guys buying these realize they are basically buying a factory built race car and it required more maintainence. Hell there is a sticker on the door that tells you the tires wear out, that should be clue for everyone.
The part about having problems with Shiv's parts of course is the part I liked. I get tired of all the good publicity he gets. (yeah, I am like that) Reading it though I only believe that part of it was actually Shiv's fault. The tune he put in the computer I would say was too aggressive, maybe from not knowing what he could get away with on Michigan's octane, maybe the car got bad gas in it or maybe he just pushed the tune knowing it would be dyno'd and wanting to look good. The 02 sensor has to be the installers fault, I would think. Maybe the compression washer off the rear 02 was missing, maybe it wasn't tight, maybe the threads weren't perfect who knows. That was a BS thing to have happen, kind of like blowing off multiple i/c hoses though. Those dumb things kill you, had them happen to myself.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Personally, its offensive the way the repair and maintenance expenses where adddressed in the article. Compared to BMW's and Porsche the evo is a bargian to repair. My evo has been totally trouble free and never had one warranty claim of issue - despite extreme abuse and still on original brake pads.
I think I will have to stick with the over seas car magazines like EVO and TOP SPEED, etc. from now on where they continue to rank the Evo and the STI with top honors and can fully appreciate the type of cars these are. It really annoys me to hear that these geeks leave the evo sitting in the driveway becuase the ride is too stiff and the car has no cruise control. What happend to the kind of magaizne guys who used to do a cannon ball run in a Ferrari Daytona (last time I checked they did not have cruise control either)
I am not a Vishnu fan boy by any strech of the imagination. BUT - I have to be honest with myself and admit that the dude writing the article in this case had his head so far up his posterior it was comming out his nose.
Hopefully when the super tuner challenge comes along that writer is off in some mall parking lot testing the parking ability of a mini van.
Heck - how could I be upset with the miserable article - after all these some magazine dudes hired Vishnu to prepare their race car!
Obviously they don't know which end is up.
Last edited by DynoFlash; Mar 15, 2005 at 09:10 AM.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
The part I don't understand is WHY its always Vishnu that C & D is using for these products. There are so many other Evo tuners such as Buschur Racing. To me its more fair and informational to the readers to mix it up and try varuious tuners so there can be a broad cross section of tuning products.
Personally, its offensive the way the repair and maintenance expenses where adddressed in the article. Compared to BMW's and Porsche the evo is a bargian to repair. My evo has been totally trouble free and never had one warranty claim of issue - despite extreme abuse and still on original brake pads.
I think I will have to stick with the over seas car magazines like EVO and TOP SPEED, etc. from now on where they continue to rank the Evo and the STI with top honors and can fully appreciate the type of cars these are. It really annoys me to hear that these geeks leave the evo sitting in the driveway becuase the ride is too stiff and the car has no cruise control. What happend to the kind of magaizne guys who used to do a cannon ball run in a Ferrari Daytona (last time I checked they did not have cruise control either)
I am not a Vishnu fan boy by any strech of the imagination. BUT - I have to be honest with myself and admit that the dude writing the article in this case had his head so far up his posterior it was comming out his nose.
Hopefully when the super tuner challenge comes along that writer is off in some mall parking lot testing the parking ability of a mini van.
Heck - how could I be upset with the miserable article - after all these some magazine dudes hired Vishnu to prepare their race car! Obviously they don't know which end is up.
Personally, its offensive the way the repair and maintenance expenses where adddressed in the article. Compared to BMW's and Porsche the evo is a bargian to repair. My evo has been totally trouble free and never had one warranty claim of issue - despite extreme abuse and still on original brake pads.
I think I will have to stick with the over seas car magazines like EVO and TOP SPEED, etc. from now on where they continue to rank the Evo and the STI with top honors and can fully appreciate the type of cars these are. It really annoys me to hear that these geeks leave the evo sitting in the driveway becuase the ride is too stiff and the car has no cruise control. What happend to the kind of magaizne guys who used to do a cannon ball run in a Ferrari Daytona (last time I checked they did not have cruise control either)
I am not a Vishnu fan boy by any strech of the imagination. BUT - I have to be honest with myself and admit that the dude writing the article in this case had his head so far up his posterior it was comming out his nose.
Hopefully when the super tuner challenge comes along that writer is off in some mall parking lot testing the parking ability of a mini van.
Heck - how could I be upset with the miserable article - after all these some magazine dudes hired Vishnu to prepare their race car!
Obviously they don't know which end is up.Dave, I don't see why you would need to spend more than $20,000 in mods to come to this event. THATS ALOT OF MODS! That should put you somewhere in the 450-500whp range on pump gas. I think a car with this much whp will make a huge statement at this event. Whether or not you take first, only time will tell.
$34,000(car)+$20,000(mods)=$54,000<doesn't look like overkill to me.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Personally, its offensive the way the repair and maintenance expenses where adddressed in the article. Compared to BMW's and Porsche the evo is a bargian to repair. My evo has been totally trouble free and never had one warranty claim of issue - despite extreme abuse and still on original brake pads.
I think I will have to stick with the over seas car magazines like EVO and TOP SPEED, etc. from now on where they continue to rank the Evo and the STI with top honors and can fully appreciate the type of cars these are. It really annoys me to hear that these geeks leave the evo sitting in the driveway becuase the ride is too stiff and the car has no cruise control. What happend to the kind of magaizne guys who used to do a cannon ball run in a Ferrari Daytona (last time I checked they did not have cruise control either)
I think I will have to stick with the over seas car magazines like EVO and TOP SPEED, etc. from now on where they continue to rank the Evo and the STI with top honors and can fully appreciate the type of cars these are. It really annoys me to hear that these geeks leave the evo sitting in the driveway becuase the ride is too stiff and the car has no cruise control. What happend to the kind of magaizne guys who used to do a cannon ball run in a Ferrari Daytona (last time I checked they did not have cruise control either)
Let's not forget that one of these magazines gave the Car of the Year award to a Prius while Automobile magazine gave it to the EVO that same year.
Originally Posted by dpardo
I agree Al.
Let's not forget that one of these magazines gave the Car of the Year award to a Prius while Automobile magazine gave it to the EVO that same year.
Let's not forget that one of these magazines gave the Car of the Year award to a Prius while Automobile magazine gave it to the EVO that same year.
My vote is for budget. I'm a happy buschur customer and Buschur has built their reputation on having the best bang for buck in the industry. If Vishnu shows up with another stage 1 car with $6000 in mods, and the buschur wins, the article will always read "the vishnu did well considering it was $10K cheaper than the buschur car". If you can build a car for cheaper AND win the streetability and performance categories (which is incidentally where vishnu says they're best, at the compromise between performance and livability) then you're beating Vishnu at their own game. If you can figure out how to keep the car street legal (i.e. keep the cat) and win with expertise then you'll get the attention you want. May the best tuner win.
Last edited by osunick; Mar 15, 2005 at 10:11 AM.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Memphis Tennessee
Originally Posted by dpardo
Let's not forget that one of these magazines gave the Car of the Year award to a Prius while Automobile magazine gave it to the EVO that same year.
Very important point.
Originally Posted by Vishnu_Evo8
just a bit of info in the last super flea challenge... an s2000 won, but a vishnu stage 1+ evo with like 4 mods was very very close to the winning s2000. 1/2 of the cars will be ff so they will have no chance in the 1/4 mile portion.
btw in response to the evo having no chance agianst turbo vipers in the 1/4 mile portion of the main super tuner challenge.... vishnu's evo had the fastest 1/4 mile time of any car at the event including turbo vipers.. etc. and this was done on 93 octane gas.
a well modded elise will be a good competitor though.. it should be fun.
btw in response to the evo having no chance agianst turbo vipers in the 1/4 mile portion of the main super tuner challenge.... vishnu's evo had the fastest 1/4 mile time of any car at the event including turbo vipers.. etc. and this was done on 93 octane gas.
a well modded elise will be a good competitor though.. it should be fun.
I have decided on my vote - I would like to see David bring both his white RS with stage 4 and several other common bolt ons - AND - also his old red evo with the full engine build up.
This wouled be very helpful and informative and provide a refernce point for readers to see how the evos work with various modification levels and budgets and make an informed decision.
SO - my vote is bring TWO evos
This wouled be very helpful and informative and provide a refernce point for readers to see how the evos work with various modification levels and budgets and make an informed decision.
SO - my vote is bring TWO evos
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
KazzEVO,
You and I are thinking alike on how to compete in this. I have went back and printed all of the articles I can find and read/saved them.
The ride/drive part of this event has no bearing on how you do in the race BUT the editors saying your car is noisey and sucks still hurts what the readers think about what you produce.
This last issue of C&D I loved and hated all at once. I don't like that they bad mouthed the long term EVO BUT the brakes are expensive and so is the synthetic oils and such for maintaining it. So what do you say? The stock clutch won't hold up to abuse so it has to be changed, again, what do you say? Most guys buying these realize they are basically buying a factory built race car and it required more maintainence. Hell there is a sticker on the door that tells you the tires wear out, that should be clue for everyone.
The part about having problems with Shiv's parts of course is the part I liked. I get tired of all the good publicity he gets. (yeah, I am like that) Reading it though I only believe that part of it was actually Shiv's fault. The tune he put in the computer I would say was too aggressive, maybe from not knowing what he could get away with on Michigan's octane, maybe the car got bad gas in it or maybe he just pushed the tune knowing it would be dyno'd and wanting to look good. The 02 sensor has to be the installers fault, I would think. Maybe the compression washer off the rear 02 was missing, maybe it wasn't tight, maybe the threads weren't perfect who knows. That was a BS thing to have happen, kind of like blowing off multiple i/c hoses though. Those dumb things kill you, had them happen to myself.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
You and I are thinking alike on how to compete in this. I have went back and printed all of the articles I can find and read/saved them.
The ride/drive part of this event has no bearing on how you do in the race BUT the editors saying your car is noisey and sucks still hurts what the readers think about what you produce.
This last issue of C&D I loved and hated all at once. I don't like that they bad mouthed the long term EVO BUT the brakes are expensive and so is the synthetic oils and such for maintaining it. So what do you say? The stock clutch won't hold up to abuse so it has to be changed, again, what do you say? Most guys buying these realize they are basically buying a factory built race car and it required more maintainence. Hell there is a sticker on the door that tells you the tires wear out, that should be clue for everyone.
The part about having problems with Shiv's parts of course is the part I liked. I get tired of all the good publicity he gets. (yeah, I am like that) Reading it though I only believe that part of it was actually Shiv's fault. The tune he put in the computer I would say was too aggressive, maybe from not knowing what he could get away with on Michigan's octane, maybe the car got bad gas in it or maybe he just pushed the tune knowing it would be dyno'd and wanting to look good. The 02 sensor has to be the installers fault, I would think. Maybe the compression washer off the rear 02 was missing, maybe it wasn't tight, maybe the threads weren't perfect who knows. That was a BS thing to have happen, kind of like blowing off multiple i/c hoses though. Those dumb things kill you, had them happen to myself.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Guys, I don't in anyway want this to turn into a Shiv vs. Buschur thread. As David@Vishnu stated, this stuff is getting mixed up pretty heavy. First it is a Four cylinder shootout, anymore reference to V8's is silly, leave them out of it they aren't going to be there. Also, the only 4 cylinder shootout they did was in 2003, Vishnu brought an EVO with limited mods and did well. When that shootout happened we had a bunch of stuff for the EVO's already I would assume at that point in time that was all Shiv had for the car. It's apparant that we continue to develop products very quickly here so we constantly have more and more available to us. The 2nd event Shiv was at was the Super Tuner Shootout which did involve V8's and he brought a heavily modified EVO to that event and also did pretty well (other than intercooler plumbing).
This isn't a Vishnu vs. Buschur Shootout. To be honest it wouldn't be nearly as exciting to me if it was. I am looking forward to competing against a bunch of other types of cars. 24 people are invited to this.
I believe Shiv already implied he wasn't even bringing an EVO to this event. It's his right as he has already competed in 2 of these using the EVO. Besides, we'll be there, can you blame him for wanting to bring something else!!
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
This isn't a Vishnu vs. Buschur Shootout. To be honest it wouldn't be nearly as exciting to me if it was. I am looking forward to competing against a bunch of other types of cars. 24 people are invited to this.
I believe Shiv already implied he wasn't even bringing an EVO to this event. It's his right as he has already competed in 2 of these using the EVO. Besides, we'll be there, can you blame him for wanting to bring something else!!
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com