Dude what part dint you get, WE DO NOT USE THE TRANSLATOR TO TUNE THE CAR<<<< WE USE STOCK ECU TO TUNE OUR CARS<<<<< I run stock ecu, 658hp on stock ecu 1600cc with gm maf,,,,,
im not talking about this "FP red setup" im talking about how you trash the gm maf since you know it all with no data to back anything up. Trust me this fight was fought way to many time with no back up data prove nothing.

 

So you think that you get a better reading through the stock maf before the turbo rather than the GM maf right before the throttle body? I like my Red without milk and honeycomb!

 

 

I can tell by your well thought out responses and abundance of data that you will be converting everyone over to the GM MAF & Translator. I'm not trashing the GM MAF, just stating it is not needed. To a half educated observer it is pretty clear that you have no empirical data and are basing everything off of theoreticals and speculation. Please answer my questions from my previous response and let us know why we should all be converting to this setup. I don't need to defend anything, as I'm using the tools that came w/ the car and maximizing them to their full potential. I'll restate the questions, feel free to take your time and ask all your buddy's the best responses to each. I'll assume no response indicates a lack of compelling evidence:

- In the context of this thread "FP Red Setups", when will you ever surpass the capabilities of the stock MAF/ECU setup?

- When will you need 1600cc injectors for a ~57lb/min turbo, even if you run E85?

- Show me one fast car running a GM MAF/Translator and I guarantee I can show you a car running even faster on the Stock ECU.
I'll start: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/en...u-mas-evo.html

As far as dyno numbers, those mean nothing to me if you don't back it up at the track....

 

You won't know if you're ever surpassing the capabilities of the stock MAF/ECU until you upgrade. It's hard to say when it will become the limiting factor, but I know a lot of the fastest Red setups are on EMS.

When you get to 9sec9 and Most-Wanted's level, 1600cc injectors maybe necessary for E85 on the Red.

There simply aren't that many GM MAF setups out there compared to the stock MAF/ECU. They aren't using it so much to make power as they are for drive ability. I've seen so many stock ECU cars tuned by some of the big ECUFlash pros (I won't call out any names to avoid vendor bashing) that have had stalling issues and such. From what I've seen in person, the GM MAF has helped with that a tremendous amount.

In terms of dyno numbers compared to time slips, I agree to a point. When talking solely about power, I believe that a dyno sheet will say a lot because the track takes in too many variables. Weight, driver, and traction have everything to do with a time slip, but nothing to do with making horsepower (for the most part).

 

This statement intrigues me. If someone can't unlock the potential of the stock ECU then how in the world will a MAF Translator make it better? All you can do with it is adjust the fuel trims and you're really just adjusting that across the board and not amongst each cell.

So if it just roughly adjust fuel trims, the actual adjustments that can be made in the translator are less useful than an S-AFC. On top of that, these guys aren't even using the translator for anything more than to just enable the stock ECU to read the GM MAF. All of their settings are zeroed out inside of it.

Maybe you can provide a little more insight as to what you mean.

 

There are definitely indicators that you are surpassing the limits of the stock ECU/MAF such as measured airflow (Hz), Timing/Fueling resolution at higher loads, injector scaling capabilities, etc. I'm fully aware of the limitations of the stock ECU and when you reach those I'm all for going to a full-standalone (AEM, Autotronic, VPro, etc.) and speed density. I agree there a bunch of tuners out there who probably shouldn't be allowed to tune as they put out sub-par tunes and force people to explore other options to get decent drivability; a typical 2 hour tuning session really can't get a car fully dialed in w/ stock ECU for more extreme builds and all driving scenarios. Devices like a MAF translator or GM MAF can make this portion of getting a car dialed in a little easier, but they still are not needed.

You see, dyno's that can be manipulated also present a lot of unknown variables. If I see a car putting down 640 whp on a Mustang dyno and they are only trapping 130, something doesn't add up. This is why I prefer track times to dyno numbers, give me the weight and trap and I can get a good estimate of how much power the car is actually making. My stance still stands that I feel you can make just as much power w/ a stock based setup and the track records are there to support that. If you feel strongly towards using a GM MAF & Translator, so be it, just don't make it sound like its required at this level of build.

 

I don't quite get the point you're trying to make, especially when you're able to adjust fuel trims using the stock ecu/maf. It seems as though you're validating my point that a GM MAF/Translator is not needed? I know how to adjust my fuel trims and everything else associated w/ cold starting, throttle tip-in, smooth power transitions, etc. Why would you need a GM MAF when you can do all this w/ the stock setup? My point stands, why use a piggyback if the potential is there w/ the stock components?

 

Here's my Red setup:

92oct
Kelford 272's
GSC Beehives w/Ti retainers
Hallman MBC@30psi
PTE 1000cc's
Walbro 255 (almost 3 years old)
Denso 1 step colder plugs
ETS UICP/LICP/3.5" wide tank IC
Buschur MAF pipe w/filter (old style)
TurboXS TBE (no cat)
PPI extreme ported/coated exhaust manifold
EPM O2 dump
New OEM head gasket and intake manifold gasket
ARP head studs
TiAL BOV
Mellon Tune

Mellon is still tuning my car and DLL logs showed ~460awhp (I'll find the graph tonight). Hopefully once the tune is done I'll be putting that down once I hit the dyno (more wouldn't hurt either).

 

My point is that your statement implies that people use the MAF Translator to mask their inability to tune whereas I don't see how it is impossible when it only has the ability to adjust fuel trims and not very accurately at that.

 

i dont know much about tuning a evo at all lol but i do know mellon has 701 hp on his stocker and he has a aem ecu and he does not use it. not even installed he thought he might reach the limits of the stock ecu as well. He is helping me with my build now and i asked him about getting a AEM cause i was ready to lay down cash for one and he said stand alones are a waste of money and if you know how to tune the the stock ecu will get you what you need. now plenty of evos have been tuned by him and i have to agree with Creamo3 the stock ecu is more than capable of handling all your needs. So maybe somebodies tuning skills needs to be re-evaluated or why not just allow another tuner of the stock ecu to take a look. will not hurt anything and sometimes its good to shop around

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...stock-ecu.html

your turn

 

instead of bigger injectors what about a bigger fuel pump? like a walbro?!!

 

That is quite the accomplishment and I'm fully aware of the dyno numbers; however, dyno numbers don't equate to track times

 

1.Is it possible to get a DIY on this, like when to inspect it/ how to clean it out, and what to do/not to do??

2.Also I just ordered a forge Rs bov recirc and was wondering what others that have it installed thing of it?? Also any suggestions on setting it up??