Some current oil analysis info, ongoing testing.
i'm sure the Dominator has equally high if nor higher zinc and phos levels and the flashpoints of the 2 oils are within 1% of each other.
the Z Rod is a little cheaper though,so if you are trying to save money go with the Z Rod.
i still think the Motul 300V is a step up from both,but between the 2 Amsoils the Dominator is their race car oil.
the Z Rod is a little cheaper though,so if you are trying to save money go with the Z Rod.
i still think the Motul 300V is a step up from both,but between the 2 Amsoils the Dominator is their race car oil.
Motul 300v competition is pricey, I have personally never tried it so I cant comment on it.
MAP lists oils they recommend for their turbochargers, and I intend to follow their recommendations.
http://turbos.maperformance.com/evo-turbos.html
Dominator is on there but not 300v. Doesnt mean 300v is inferior, but if its not on their list I dont want to have issues if I ever need warranty through them. I assume these are oils they would recommend on their engines as well.
Last edited by TommiM; Jul 30, 2012 at 11:13 AM.
Amsoil is group 3 and group 4.
Motul 300V is a group 5 ester oil.
Ester is more durable,has better heat resistance and inherently better at lubrication.
not sure why Motul 300V isn't on their website as approved other than maybe they haven't looked at it yet.
it is pricey,but really at $29.95/2 liter can it's only another couple bucks more than the Amsoil Dominator.
i keep some of the Dominator on hand in case of emergency,like i can't get the Motul quick enough or i need to do an unscheduled oil change,but i like the 300V best.
plus it's bright orange,comes in a can and smells like candy!
Motul 300V is a group 5 ester oil.
Ester is more durable,has better heat resistance and inherently better at lubrication.
not sure why Motul 300V isn't on their website as approved other than maybe they haven't looked at it yet.
it is pricey,but really at $29.95/2 liter can it's only another couple bucks more than the Amsoil Dominator.
i keep some of the Dominator on hand in case of emergency,like i can't get the Motul quick enough or i need to do an unscheduled oil change,but i like the 300V best.
plus it's bright orange,comes in a can and smells like candy!
Motul 300v competition is pricey, I have personally never tried it so I cant comment on it.
MAP lists oils they recommend for their turbochargers, and I intend to follow their recommendations.
http://turbos.maperformance.com/evo-turbos.html
Dominator is on there but not 300v. Doesnt mean 300v is inferior, but if its not on their list I dont want to have issues if I ever need warranty through them. I assume these are oils they would recommend on their engines as well.
MAP lists oils they recommend for their turbochargers, and I intend to follow their recommendations.
http://turbos.maperformance.com/evo-turbos.html
Dominator is on there but not 300v. Doesnt mean 300v is inferior, but if its not on their list I dont want to have issues if I ever need warranty through them. I assume these are oils they would recommend on their engines as well.
The ZROD isn't listed on MAP's site either, but considering it's specifically made with high ZDDP in mind, I'll have no worries running it on my EF2.
you'll be fine.
i'm sure that list was compiled a long time ago and even then probably omitted some of the best oils out there.
the Zrod and Dominator appear to be Amsoil's best offerings for the performance minded driver.
A few caveats with Motul for the 300v 15w50 are a few like any oil, the 300v oils are meant for motorcycles although they may be ok to run in a car.
Zinc levels are 1139
Phos are 1130
And it's price is crazy, 64 a gal without shipping.
The dominator is all over 1400 on both zinc and phos, and priced at less than 10.50 a qt and group 4 oil.
Unless you are planning on running an extended drain then you can care less about the oil group up to a point of course, where racing you won't be running the same oil for the entire season and that is where a higher base stock as group 5 would shine.
Zinc levels are 1139
Phos are 1130
And it's price is crazy, 64 a gal without shipping.
The dominator is all over 1400 on both zinc and phos, and priced at less than 10.50 a qt and group 4 oil.
Unless you are planning on running an extended drain then you can care less about the oil group up to a point of course, where racing you won't be running the same oil for the entire season and that is where a higher base stock as group 5 would shine.
Amsoil is group 3 and group 4.
Motul 300V is a group 5 ester oil.
Ester is more durable,has better heat resistance and inherently better at lubrication.
not sure why Motul 300V isn't on their website as approved other than maybe they haven't looked at it yet.
it is pricey,but really at $29.95/2 liter can it's only another couple bucks more than the Amsoil Dominator.
i keep some of the Dominator on hand in case of emergency,like i can't get the Motul quick enough or i need to do an unscheduled oil change,but i like the 300V best.
plus it's bright orange,comes in a can and smells like candy!
Motul 300V is a group 5 ester oil.
Ester is more durable,has better heat resistance and inherently better at lubrication.
not sure why Motul 300V isn't on their website as approved other than maybe they haven't looked at it yet.
it is pricey,but really at $29.95/2 liter can it's only another couple bucks more than the Amsoil Dominator.
i keep some of the Dominator on hand in case of emergency,like i can't get the Motul quick enough or i need to do an unscheduled oil change,but i like the 300V best.
plus it's bright orange,comes in a can and smells like candy!
Last edited by apagan01; Jul 30, 2012 at 03:22 PM.
Zrod came out surely after the FPs list came out.
A few caveats with Motul for the 300v 15w50 are a few like any oil, the 300v oils are meant for motorcycles although they may be ok to run in a car.
Zinc levels are 1139
Phos are 1130
And it's price is crazy, 64 a gal without shipping.
The dominator is all over 1400 on both zinc and phos, and priced at less than 10.50 a qt and group 4 oil.
Unless you are planning on running an extended drain then you can care less about the oil group up to a point of course, where racing you won't be running the same oil for the entire season and that is where a higher base stock as group 5 would shine.
Zinc levels are 1139
Phos are 1130
And it's price is crazy, 64 a gal without shipping.
The dominator is all over 1400 on both zinc and phos, and priced at less than 10.50 a qt and group 4 oil.
Unless you are planning on running an extended drain then you can care less about the oil group up to a point of course, where racing you won't be running the same oil for the entire season and that is where a higher base stock as group 5 would shine.
as far as the extended drain being the upper hand for group V,i completely disagree there as well.it is a well know fact that Ester base oils are superior in heat handling,durablitiy in general and lubricity.
it is just better oil,i know you are an Amsoil rep,so you are going to plug it everu chanve you get and stick up for it like all the Amsoil reps do,but if you do a little research,you will find out more about the 300V.
your prices are also way off base.i get 2L shipped for $29.95,which is 5-6% more oil than 2 quarts and last time i tried to buy 2 quarts of Dominator they wanted $25 plus shipping was extra and they even tried to charge me tax and an excise tax,wow who charges tax on the internet.
anyway the Amsoil ended up being almost $36 for 2 quarts and like i said before i can get 2 lioters of 300V for $29.95 shipped,so i guess the 300V is actually cheaper after Amsoil adds on all their little fees and taxes.even going off your 300V prices,i think 4 quarts are in a gallon last time i checked so Dominator looks like $72 per gallon,now who has the crazy high price.
about the Zinc levels being a little lower,yes it looks like they are,but those numbers are liosted in ppm,which is parts per million.it's not like we are talking about a big difference or anything.you are talking about .03% or 3 hundreths of 1%,come on man.
i know the Amsoil clan is strong and i know that the reps will defend it 'til they are blue in the face,in fact that is the one thing i don't like about Amsoil as a company.you will never see a Motul rep in here trying to tell people it's better than Amsoil.they don't need to.
i wonder where you get the price $10.50,b/c i just went there and tried to buy as i was tyoing the above and they wanted $36 for 2 quarts shipped.and they actual oil price was like $12.65/qt.
maybe you get it cheaper b/c you are a dealer?
but that price is not good for regular customers as far as i can tell.
i like the Dominator for a back up oil.i have 2 cases,for when i can't get the 300V quick enough or just need to do an un-forseen oil change.
i just like the 300V better,i like Ester oil better than PAO.that's just me.
i advise anyone to do a little reading on the difference between PAO(group IV) and Ester(group V) oils.there is a tone of material out there to learn.they are both good and both will probably be sufficient in any EVO ever made.
i'm sorry to have gotten this thread off track,but i felt i had to address the false claims of the Amsoil rep above.
maybe you get it cheaper b/c you are a dealer?
but that price is not good for regular customers as far as i can tell.
i like the Dominator for a back up oil.i have 2 cases,for when i can't get the 300V quick enough or just need to do an un-forseen oil change.
i just like the 300V better,i like Ester oil better than PAO.that's just me.
i advise anyone to do a little reading on the difference between PAO(group IV) and Ester(group V) oils.there is a tone of material out there to learn.they are both good and both will probably be sufficient in any EVO ever made.
i'm sorry to have gotten this thread off track,but i felt i had to address the false claims of the Amsoil rep above.
i wonder where you get the price $10.50,b/c i just went there and tried to buy as i was tyoing the above and they wanted $36 for 2 quarts shipped.and they actual oil price was like $12.65/qt.
maybe you get it cheaper b/c you are a dealer?
but that price is not good for regular customers as far as i can tell.
i like the Dominator for a back up oil.i have 2 cases,for when i can't get the 300V quick enough or just need to do an un-forseen oil change.
i just like the 300V better,i like Ester oil better than PAO.that's just me.
i advise anyone to do a little reading on the difference between PAO(group IV) and Ester(group V) oils.there is a tone of material out there to learn.they are both good and both will probably be sufficient in any EVO ever made.
i'm sorry to have gotten this thread off track,but i felt i had to address the false claims of the Amsoil rep above.
maybe you get it cheaper b/c you are a dealer?
but that price is not good for regular customers as far as i can tell.
i like the Dominator for a back up oil.i have 2 cases,for when i can't get the 300V quick enough or just need to do an un-forseen oil change.
i just like the 300V better,i like Ester oil better than PAO.that's just me.
i advise anyone to do a little reading on the difference between PAO(group IV) and Ester(group V) oils.there is a tone of material out there to learn.they are both good and both will probably be sufficient in any EVO ever made.
i'm sorry to have gotten this thread off track,but i felt i had to address the false claims of the Amsoil rep above.
Any info on how it holds up to E85? I have been interested in trying out 300v and Total Quartz 9000, but I just assumed since they were designed more for the European market that they weren't necessarily optimized for someone on e85 since that's not a popular fuel out there.
Alright sir put down your sword over there, no one intended for you to get your panties in a bunch. I did not ask you whether if you liked our business model or not, neither do I care. Not a good precedence to carry for being a newbie in this forum.
I stand corrected I should have read closer where it was mentioned 300V from Motul and yes I know enough about that oil to get in trouble, after all I need to know my competition
Motul Is one of the only oils that can stand up with AMSOIL it has been know in the industry, the edge we have on Motul is our price and our quality some times is matched or better.
As far as the price lets set the record clear this is the area Motul fails because.
- Motul is 30.00 for 2 liters which is 2.11 qts, and if you buy at a store I have seen it as high as 38.00, but let's assume is 30. So yes this will make it a 64 dollar a gallon.
- The dominator I give it to my clients for much lower that 10.50 and let's leave it at that
- Simple math 3 qts of dominator for less than 30 bucks
Oil properties oh man we can do this all day.
As far as the ZDDP goes, the difference between 1100 ish and 1400 is good amount when we talk in terms of PPM, each 10% matters in the case of ZDDP.
We were just talking about why would we not have an engine oil that is a group 5 versus a 4 (and oh by the way a 4 has Easter added to its base) chemist engineers technical managers all giggled and agreed that there is a point where you draw the line and you state your facts.
NO the group base stock has nothing to do with the viscosity index or viscocity improver of the oil. VI is what controls the ability to withstand temp swings,heat amd cold temps. In other words is just one of the many additives of the oil.
Once you choose the base stock group 4 then you start choosing your additives that will spec how well they hamdle the acids, Wear, foaming, detergents in the oil.
The only reason a group 5 is better in heat handling is for the reason I mention above the viscosity improver is a good quality one, but I can also have a better Viscocity improver on a Group 3 or 4. The issue is these expensive additives not everyone wants to use in their oils.
The same goes for lubricity, this is where the anti wear additives come in hand most commonly used are zinc and phos, ZDDP are what we know as soft and solid lubricants they cling onto parts to prevent metal to metal contact. This is where yes the more zinc and phos you have the better you are socially when racing.
I stand corrected I should have read closer where it was mentioned 300V from Motul and yes I know enough about that oil to get in trouble, after all I need to know my competition
Motul Is one of the only oils that can stand up with AMSOIL it has been know in the industry, the edge we have on Motul is our price and our quality some times is matched or better.
As far as the price lets set the record clear this is the area Motul fails because.
- Motul is 30.00 for 2 liters which is 2.11 qts, and if you buy at a store I have seen it as high as 38.00, but let's assume is 30. So yes this will make it a 64 dollar a gallon.
- The dominator I give it to my clients for much lower that 10.50 and let's leave it at that
- Simple math 3 qts of dominator for less than 30 bucks
Oil properties oh man we can do this all day.
As far as the ZDDP goes, the difference between 1100 ish and 1400 is good amount when we talk in terms of PPM, each 10% matters in the case of ZDDP.
We were just talking about why would we not have an engine oil that is a group 5 versus a 4 (and oh by the way a 4 has Easter added to its base) chemist engineers technical managers all giggled and agreed that there is a point where you draw the line and you state your facts.
NO the group base stock has nothing to do with the viscosity index or viscocity improver of the oil. VI is what controls the ability to withstand temp swings,heat amd cold temps. In other words is just one of the many additives of the oil.
Once you choose the base stock group 4 then you start choosing your additives that will spec how well they hamdle the acids, Wear, foaming, detergents in the oil.
The only reason a group 5 is better in heat handling is for the reason I mention above the viscosity improver is a good quality one, but I can also have a better Viscocity improver on a Group 3 or 4. The issue is these expensive additives not everyone wants to use in their oils.
The same goes for lubricity, this is where the anti wear additives come in hand most commonly used are zinc and phos, ZDDP are what we know as soft and solid lubricants they cling onto parts to prevent metal to metal contact. This is where yes the more zinc and phos you have the better you are socially when racing.
your source of information is completely wrong.Motul makes 300V for the car and 300V for motorcycles.the 300V i use is for race cars and comes in a 2L metal can.it is completely different from the 3300V motorcycle oil they sell.
as far as the extended drain being the upper hand for group V,i completely disagree there as well.it is a well know fact that Ester base oils are superior in heat handling,durablitiy in general and lubricity.
your prices are also way off base.i get 2L shipped for $29.95,which is 5-6% more oil than 2 quarts and last time i tried to buy 2 quarts of Dominator they wanted $25 plus shipping was extra and they even tried to charge me tax and an excise tax,wow who charges tax on the internet.
about the Zinc levels being a little lower,yes it looks like they are,but those numbers are liosted in ppm,which is parts per million.it's not like we are talking about a big difference or anything.you are talking about .03% or 3 hundreths of 1%,come on man.
you will never see a Motul rep in here trying to tell people it's better than Amsoil.they don't need to.
as far as the extended drain being the upper hand for group V,i completely disagree there as well.it is a well know fact that Ester base oils are superior in heat handling,durablitiy in general and lubricity.
your prices are also way off base.i get 2L shipped for $29.95,which is 5-6% more oil than 2 quarts and last time i tried to buy 2 quarts of Dominator they wanted $25 plus shipping was extra and they even tried to charge me tax and an excise tax,wow who charges tax on the internet.
about the Zinc levels being a little lower,yes it looks like they are,but those numbers are liosted in ppm,which is parts per million.it's not like we are talking about a big difference or anything.you are talking about .03% or 3 hundreths of 1%,come on man.
you will never see a Motul rep in here trying to tell people it's better than Amsoil.they don't need to.
As far as the price lets set the record clear this is the area Motul fails because.
- Motul is 30.00 for 2 liters which is 2.11 qts, and if you buy at a store I have seen it as high as 38.00, but let's assume is 30. So yes this will make it a 64 dollar a gallon.
- The dominator I give it to my clients for much lower that 10.50 and let's leave it at that
- Simple math 3 qts of dominator for less than 30 bucks
- Motul is 30.00 for 2 liters which is 2.11 qts, and if you buy at a store I have seen it as high as 38.00, but let's assume is 30. So yes this will make it a 64 dollar a gallon.
- The dominator I give it to my clients for much lower that 10.50 and let's leave it at that
- Simple math 3 qts of dominator for less than 30 bucks
you can move the goal post all over the place,but the fact of the matter is if i log onto the website and buy 2 quarts of Amsoil it is going to cost me $36 shipped after shipping and tax.
i can buy 2 liters of Motul 300V for $29.95 shipped from more than one place.
you're right no one asked me if i liked or didn't like Amsoils business model,but honestly aside from that i love everything about Amsoil.the oil is good,top 3 for sure.
We were just talking about why would we not have an engine oil that is a group 5 versus a 4 (and oh by the way a 4 has Easter added to its base) chemist engineers technical managers all giggled and agreed that there is a point where you draw the line and you state your facts.
my apologies to you if i offended you sir.my panties are pulled back down now and the sword is sheathed.
also i should mention to all the guys that race in here or put up big numbers on the dyno frequently,don't just buy the basic Amsoil.buy the Zrod or the Dominator,your engine will thank you for it.i think a lot of people don't know about the Zrod and Dominator and just think that any old Amsoil will do the trick.
Ive been trying to get more info on what Motul oil and its compatibility with e85. Seems so far what I have found is that Motul says their 6100 is best suited for e85, no mention either way about 300v. Dominator is compatible, and theres lots of info out there on folks using it with great success.
The main key seems to be that if your running ethanol then frequent oil changes are critical. Im not bashing Motul but I cant seem to find much info on 300v and e85.
The main key seems to be that if your running ethanol then frequent oil changes are critical. Im not bashing Motul but I cant seem to find much info on 300v and e85.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-953-ester-synthetic.aspx
this guy is super sharp on oil and follows all typed of racing and engine performance.
i actually followed his links to ask what oil for my car,where it asks specific questions about your build.i also told him i was in USA and honestly couldn't buy from him b/c of shipping.i told him that i just wanted his opinion on what to run in an 800who EVO 8 running E85 95% of the time.he kniows about built motors and hi-boost cars for drag or auto-x.
he replied the next day with a list that started with Motul 300V 15W-50,then Redline,Silkolene and the Fuchs.thing about it was that every oil he recommended was an ester.he is a believer as am i.they are superior oils imo,and i think the ester base would be resilient to E85.
Opie explained it a little better than i can,in fact i will try to dig up the old e-mail.
you could also call Motul and ask them what they think,but i think the 300V will be the best oil Motul has to offer no matter what fuel you are using,as long as intervals aren't too long.
this oil looks good for us too with short change intervals:
http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/...AQs.aspx#FAQs1
i don't think we can actually buy the castrol race oil that they use in say Lemans.
this guy is super sharp on oil and follows all typed of racing and engine performance.
i actually followed his links to ask what oil for my car,where it asks specific questions about your build.i also told him i was in USA and honestly couldn't buy from him b/c of shipping.i told him that i just wanted his opinion on what to run in an 800who EVO 8 running E85 95% of the time.he kniows about built motors and hi-boost cars for drag or auto-x.
he replied the next day with a list that started with Motul 300V 15W-50,then Redline,Silkolene and the Fuchs.thing about it was that every oil he recommended was an ester.he is a believer as am i.they are superior oils imo,and i think the ester base would be resilient to E85.
Opie explained it a little better than i can,in fact i will try to dig up the old e-mail.
you could also call Motul and ask them what they think,but i think the 300V will be the best oil Motul has to offer no matter what fuel you are using,as long as intervals aren't too long.
this oil looks good for us too with short change intervals:
http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/...AQs.aspx#FAQs1
i don't think we can actually buy the castrol race oil that they use in say Lemans.
This is why its important to change your oil regularly. We just got a Mercedes ML350 that came in for a CPO inspection. Vehicle only had 21k miles on it.
this was after cleaning up the gunk under the cap a bit.
This is the oil filter---can you see it underneath that gunk, hard to tell in the pics but thats solid goo.
When the initial oil drained out it was like tar and very chunky. After a few flushes with fresh oil and filters, you could still see the gunk behind the timing chain. No way to get this all out without opening the motor. Mercedes intervals are every 10k, and the oil doesnt usually resemble this at all. Im not sure yet if its never had an oil change or someone put in conventional oil. Its my guess one of these two did it.
this was after cleaning up the gunk under the cap a bit.
This is the oil filter---can you see it underneath that gunk, hard to tell in the pics but thats solid goo.
When the initial oil drained out it was like tar and very chunky. After a few flushes with fresh oil and filters, you could still see the gunk behind the timing chain. No way to get this all out without opening the motor. Mercedes intervals are every 10k, and the oil doesnt usually resemble this at all. Im not sure yet if its never had an oil change or someone put in conventional oil. Its my guess one of these two did it.
Last edited by TommiM; Aug 7, 2012 at 07:53 PM.
