New BW EFR Turbo Thread
EFR knowers, how do IWG EFRs perform vs. EWGs? There is obviously a difference between dumped and re-routed wastegate setups, just wondering if IWG vs EWG makes a difference, too. The B2 frame has a 42mm wastegate, which is plenty big, but perhaps it creates extra backpressure that kills power?
Anyway, stumbled across this: http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/vittu...s-buy-iwg.html
I don't understand how a larger A/R housing with external gate can outspool the IWG housing, but I'm not placing too much faith in that "test".
I have a IWG 7670 and I'm starting to think it may be a bit underwhelming on a 2.0L.
Anyway, stumbled across this: http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/vittu...s-buy-iwg.html
I don't understand how a larger A/R housing with external gate can outspool the IWG housing, but I'm not placing too much faith in that "test".
I have a IWG 7670 and I'm starting to think it may be a bit underwhelming on a 2.0L.
The IWGs work very well on Evos, where you can set a high base pressure and do not need to run low boost for traction in lower gears.
On FWD platforms with high VE motors like the K series, the IWGs are at a disadvantage since you cannot preload the wastegate actuators a lot. The need to run lower boost in lower gears plus the high VE means it is hard to keep the WG from blowing open, which slows spool.
I am familiar with the EFRs on both platforms. I had a 7670 on my 8th Gen, and now have a 7163 on my Evo 9.
The IWGs work very well on Evos, where you can set a high base pressure and do not need to run low boost for traction in lower gears.
On FWD platforms with high VE motors like the K series, the IWGs are at a disadvantage since you cannot preload the wastegate actuators a lot. The need to run lower boost in lower gears plus the high VE means it is hard to keep the WG from blowing open, which slows spool.
The IWGs work very well on Evos, where you can set a high base pressure and do not need to run low boost for traction in lower gears.
On FWD platforms with high VE motors like the K series, the IWGs are at a disadvantage since you cannot preload the wastegate actuators a lot. The need to run lower boost in lower gears plus the high VE means it is hard to keep the WG from blowing open, which slows spool.
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Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Ashdod
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Maryland, USA
EFR knowers, how do IWG EFRs perform vs. EWGs? There is obviously a difference between dumped and re-routed wastegate setups, just wondering if IWG vs EWG makes a difference, too. The B2 frame has a 42mm wastegate, which is plenty big, but perhaps it creates extra backpressure that kills power?
Anyway, stumbled across this: http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/vittu...s-buy-iwg.html
I don't understand how a larger A/R housing with external gate can outspool the IWG housing, but I'm not placing too much faith in that "test".
I have a IWG 7670 and I'm starting to think it may be a bit underwhelming on a 2.0L.
Anyway, stumbled across this: http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/vittu...s-buy-iwg.html
I don't understand how a larger A/R housing with external gate can outspool the IWG housing, but I'm not placing too much faith in that "test".
I have a IWG 7670 and I'm starting to think it may be a bit underwhelming on a 2.0L.
Purple plot is using an external WG housing from Treadstone using the VitTuned 4 port boost solenoid.
Green plot is using the BW IWG housing using the dual port billet actuator with a 4 port boost solenoid.
Green plot is using the BW IWG housing using the dual port billet actuator with a 4 port boost solenoid.
Below is a good read on internal vs external. However, in the case of the BW EFR, the internal gates are designed VERY well and really do not lose much for either rthe B1 frame or the smaller B2 frame turbos
Internal-vs-External-Wastegates
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Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Newcastle, Australia.
Fuel is 98RON and E85.
Just over 2:1 back pressure.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 800
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From: Newcastle, Australia.
I believe that is the reason for the lower numbers on 98 octane.
Regardless of what I did with timing, boost, fuel etc, it wouldn't take any more reliably.
Just realized I did not share my end results in this thread.
Evo 9 (6 speed) on pump 93
- Stock Block/IM/TB
- Tomei Cams
- 7163 twin scroll
- Turbosmart single port 23psi actuator with ~4mm preload
- tuned at a flat 24.6psi boost target on AEM Infinity
We had multiple pulls at 447-451 to back up the numbers. There is some more in it on pump, but I wanted to keep the boost flat and tq at ~380. All runs in 3rd gear.
, on Flickr
, on Flickr
Evo 9 (6 speed) on pump 93
- Stock Block/IM/TB
- Tomei Cams
- 7163 twin scroll
- Turbosmart single port 23psi actuator with ~4mm preload
- tuned at a flat 24.6psi boost target on AEM Infinity
We had multiple pulls at 447-451 to back up the numbers. There is some more in it on pump, but I wanted to keep the boost flat and tq at ~380. All runs in 3rd gear.
May I ask you what Tomei cams specifically do you use?
Many of us really like Tomei, but tend to gravitate to GSC S2 as sort of a proven solution that leaves nothing on the table for our general goals of making peek power between 7400 and 8000rpm, and redline from 7500 to 8500rpm, depending on individual project.
But Tomei have always been toe-to-toe, and we sort of see them as connoisseurs choices in that Tomei offers a few 'in between' grinds..not just S1 and S2. But without testing its hard to tell which is optimal...So courious what you are using?
Many of us really like Tomei, but tend to gravitate to GSC S2 as sort of a proven solution that leaves nothing on the table for our general goals of making peek power between 7400 and 8000rpm, and redline from 7500 to 8500rpm, depending on individual project.
But Tomei have always been toe-to-toe, and we sort of see them as connoisseurs choices in that Tomei offers a few 'in between' grinds..not just S1 and S2. But without testing its hard to tell which is optimal...So courious what you are using?
I am using the Poncam Type-Rs. I gravitated to these because I wanted to not go too big on the cam and lose transient response or boost threshold (I know that the S2s don't really lose out on the latter) but with a IX I could use a larger cam than if I had an 8.
The effective duration of the Type-Rs is more than the S1 but a little under the S2. It is almost the same as the Procam 270s, but with my stock head I did not see the need for 11.5mm of lift.
I was minutes away from buying a set of Jun 264s but could not find a cam card and did not want to buy based solely on word of mouth. I still want to try them though.
The effective duration of the Type-Rs is more than the S1 but a little under the S2. It is almost the same as the Procam 270s, but with my stock head I did not see the need for 11.5mm of lift.
I was minutes away from buying a set of Jun 264s but could not find a cam card and did not want to buy based solely on word of mouth. I still want to try them though.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l#post11225286
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Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Car in Yorkshire. Me in Phuket
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8
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From: Car in Yorkshire. Me in Phuket
7064 EWG is on now with same specification same fuel. Makes more 30ftlb more torque and 20 bhp more power than the 7163 IWG does at 1.65 bar. Will have graph overlay once finished power runs. Wastegates were blowing open at 1.75 bar so higher rated springs req'd.
Word is that switching to kelford 272 cams with 7064 can grab an extra 30hp too.
Word is that switching to kelford 272 cams with 7064 can grab an extra 30hp too.
Last edited by Wheelyking 9GT; May 8, 2017 at 06:18 AM.
