You gonna back that up with any sort of logic?

 

^^^ +1 Nice write up

 

Agree 100%. Once I can either hack into or get an aggressively tuned DSG style tranny, it will be better than a manual, although I will still prefer to drive a manual for the same reasons stated above.

l8r)

 

I have personally owned a GTI with DSG, and I loved it. It still won't ever replace my love for driving a manual transmission. My best example would be to compare it to riding a bicycle most of your life and then jumping on a motorcycle, the same thrill of blasting through air on two wheels, just a little less work involved. If I can get up to speed that much quicker and with less work then sign me up.

I think one of the biggest issues would be one that involves a lot of evolutionm members: drag racing. I know most of you have picked up the latest issue of Sport Compact Car and if you weren't too busy drooling over the five gods of evo thunder then you may have noticed the GTI shoot-out. While MKV GTI shoot-outs are a dime a dozen (see Eurotuner), this one pointed out that launching was quite a bit more difficult with the DSG then with the familiar manual transmission. I hope VW came up with a good solution with the 07's launch control but if Mitsubishi doesn't think about launch control the traction bonanza AWD X's are going to be sucking off the line. We can only hope they do, or that their semi-auto shifts are so much faster then VW's that a good launch isn't required.

One last thing, and I hope it wasn't mentioned on page two because I just scanned through real quick, what about the DIY guys who want to replace the clutch('s)? Are they going to have to put away an entire weekend to disassemble the transmission to replace a worn clutch or two?

 

I agree. The choice between Manual and DSG should be linked to what you want from your car. The DSG is a great idea, and I do believe that it is the direction that all cars will go. The gear-control of a manual, but easier to learn, can be left in [D] like an auto, but without the dirveline loss of an auto. But you're also right that it leaves something behind on the manual side as well.

If I was a competitive sort and was planning to track/auto-x/drag my X, the DSG would be high on my list of must-haves. I would much rather a fast squential gearbox to tear around a course than have to worry about double-clutching and revmatching in the heat of a corner. I've played enough driving games to know the value of a paddle-shifting sequential gearbox.

But I'm not a competitive person. I plan to attend Auto-X events with my X, but I could care less what class I end up in and how I place. My only opponent will be myself, and the clock. Also, the X will be my Daily Driver. What I want and value in my cars, is enjoyment. I love to drive, and I love to drive a manual. A DSG will take away part of what I love. And so, if I get the choice when I order my X, I will choose manual.

I would be surprised if Mitsu doesn't take this into account. Good launches are essential to Rally racing as well. Mitsu has stated that their DSG will be superior to VW's. That tells me that they actively looked at VW's DSG and probably made note of its shortcomings. If the inablity to launch while in the powerband is a known issue with VW's DSG, it is certainly something that I'd expect to be addressed by Mitsu.

Though I would like to know how this issue manifests. Does the DSG have trouble easing out the clutch and preventing wheelspin when the brake is released at launch?

This obviously is yet to be determined, but I got the impression from what I've seen about the DSG, that the Clutches are in the normal position; sandwiched between the engine and transmission. I think a DIYer would find the process similar, though a bit more complicated having to pull two clutches instead of one.

 

While I agree with you in theory there are definatly exceptions to this rule. Take a look at the 2zz-ge in the Celica GTS and more famously in the Elise.

The bore was 82 mm and the stroke was 85.

Redline in the Elise was 8600.

The main issue with these motors are the weight of the pistons (of course they need to be heavier for a turbo application) and the side loading/bearing issues.

RPM's kill motors faster than anything-except detonation.

The problem with putting a lot of torque out on a turbo motor is the way it is developed and the "lump" of power you have in the middle of the powerband, with the bottom feeling flat and the top running out of breath. If these issues have been addressed, that is great, but something tells me that the final numbers will be 320 hp to 340 hp and 300 lb-ft to 310 lb-ft. The torque to compete with the Subaru and the BMW 335 (a new target) and the 330 as the bare minimum to give the same level of performance as the outgoing car with the weight increases. Keep in mind the S4 Audi has 340 hp as well, and teh new G35 Infiniti will have 330 hp and cost in the low 30's-very close competition!

While the EVO can't really compete with these type of cars on reputation currently, I think they will make a serious effort to compete with them on performance and statistics. Time will tell....

 

I only tried to 'launch' my GTI once, and the trouble it seemed to exhibit was that the 'TCU' wouldn't allow the RPMs to increase significantly enough to bring it into the powerband before engaging the clutch. It would start engaging the clutch as soon as you applied throttle. I didn't really mind all that much because the GTI was my first turbo'd car and I wasn't drag racing it so VW's near-zero lag 2.0T was more then quick enough for me without an aggressive launch.

My GTI was an '06, when I get back from Iraq I just might have to test drive the '07 and check out VW's launch control.


I only owned my GTI for a month (+4 spent in Iraq) before selling my soul to AWD so I hadn't investigated the DSG or cared too much at the time. I was too busy enjoying the hell out of my first turbo car, I was in awe at it's handling and overall fun factor.
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If I get an Evo X, which I will, I'll keep my IX for racing/wrenching/playing and I'll happily cruise around with paddle shifters in my daily driven X. I can only hope for the curiosly satisfying grunt between shifts that VW's DSG has.

 

Now that I find interesting. Make me think the computer doesn't directly control the clutch. It sounds more like the clutch acts likea torque converter. I hope Mitsu's DSG knows to keep the clutches disengaged when you're on the brakes and revving it.

Perhaps they'll set it up so that the clutches engage as the brake is released. If so, then you could left-foot brake the X and launch it like a manual by lifting the brake smoothly. That's how I'd set it up, but then, I'm not a Mitsu Engineer.

From what I understand, the 8ms upshift time will mean the turbo stays spooled. So that means the X should just PUUULLLLLLLLL!

 

That's all the GTI knew how to do so the X will be X times more fun with the extra power!

 

I can see that philosophy and you should go for it. I am considering that but I think just to have some upgrades like a nicer stock stereo, leather and nav will be worth trading in my '03.

wonder what color options there'll be ???

 

I would guess it would be some sorta mule....prolly has an X drivetrain.

 

So, lets just see if the new world engine (or whatever they are calling it) really IS capable of holding the same boost as the 4g63... this would mean that we could start with the 2.4L version of it, build it up with forged internals, swap in the 56 LB lighter 4b motor, convert our drivetrain to the new super AYC if we blow our motors up in a few years (given they really can hold high boost/hp like the 4g), because if the new motor fits under the hood of a VIII or IX that would definitely be an option

 

Look at hte Nuremburgring pics. The hood was modified extensively. Plus, if you look closely, the whole front fascia isn't mounted properly, meaning they probably had to modify the front bumper beam and and supports. ALso, there was a video someone posted of the engine compartment. He pointed out that the engine mounts were in differnet places.

Really, Mitsu has the time, manpower, and money to retrofit anything into whatever car they wish. I am QUITE sure that the X drivetrain is *not* a swap-in on the old chassis.

 

Hey I got you onto Jalopnik.com! http://jalopnik.com/cars/you-say-you...n-x-267491.php

 

Mitsu wouldn't go through the trouble to bring a RHD mule to the US, then put VIII body panels on it. Just doesn't make fiscal sense for a company losing money left and right. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a couple USDM X's driving around somewhere in SoCal.