Still on sale pm for prices

 

Do we know if the WL RCK/Bumpsteer kit corrects the factory bumpsteer, or does it just bring the steering geometry back to factory to match the longer lower ball joint?


The thread on the factory inner tie-rod is m14x2.0, correct?

 

I need to re-measure my stock and whiteline tie rods to see what the length change is but the WL ball joint is only like 4-5mm longer than stock. Its such a small difference I would call it almost a waste of money unless you need new ball joints but it is the right dimension to correct for also adding 1.5deg of caster. As far as RC correction, its nearly nothing.

Steering arm thread is M14x1.5.

 

Well, they come as a kit, I installed both at the same time. Sounds like their tierod end likely only corrects for the longer lower ball joint.


And how convenient. No one with a rod end worth buying makes a m14x1.5 female.


I still need to measure all the front ride height for you btw. I'll do it this weekend.

 

Not sure I quite understand what you're asking. Are you asking out of the total amount of body roll or weight transfer, what percentage is controlled by the roll bars compared to the coilovers?

My point I was getting at with my statement is that I believe that people add stiffer bars to the car before the really ever need to. To me it is used a great deal as a band-aid for other underlying setup and/or driver short comings. Here is why I say that.

How many of us here run in the most ideal surfaces? I hazard to say not many. The more ideal a surface is (meaning high grip with little trash, at optimal temp, with no bumps, and flat) the stiffer you can run a car. As the surface gets less ideal you need to soften up the car to be able to dig into the surface to optimize grip. The less ideal a surface is the more the greater the tendency to skip across the surface with a stiff car. Add some elevation change and some banking to the corner the tendency increases more.

How many of us also blame the car and setup before looking at how our inputs effected an outcome? I am guilty of it from time to time as many others are also. A lot of times when we overdrive a corner and understeer occurs we put a new part on to help rather than do a bit of self analysis.

Also a bit of it comes down to driver preference and slip angles you're comfortable with. For me and my driving style, they work just fine.

Sway bars are torsional and do not move laterally so I am having a hard time picturing how it can shove the bar. The stiffer spring rates as well as the dampening already lend themselves to reducing body roll and effects the rate at which weight is transferred as you move through a corner.

 

Sorry if I missed this but what is your alignment?

 

The stock sway bar is designed for the stock spring rates, when you triple spring rates, the spring can overcome the bar and extend the inside the suspension, allowing for body roll. Your sway bars need to match spring rates.


Stiffer rates do prevent compression of the outside suspension, but on the inside, they are trying there best to make the suspension extend, it is the sway bar's job to prevent this.


On track running NT01's, I run Camber -3.2F/-1.5R, zero toe, +5.3 caster up front. Tires have very even left-right wear. Typiccally get pressures to 38f/36r hot. Although, that has yielded somewhat accelerated in side and outside edge wear. Will try bumping hot pressures 2psi for my next track day.

 

I don't agree with your conclusion. twisting a swaybar with body roll due to lateral acceleration will result in the same moment resisting the roll regardless of how stiff or soft the springs are.

 

I run 600#/in front, 650#/in rear, with cusco front lower arm bar and front/rear sway bars.

 

Go through a turn, the car rolls right. You have a roll rate that resists that roll, a portion of that roll rate is spring and another portion is bar. Stock, the front contributes 50% of antiroll and rear is 60%. Triple the rates and the contribution of the bars diminishes significantly.

I'd have to check back through my spreadsheets but I run in the 15-30% range of contribution with rear being significantly more than front for "reasons"


Disagree. See below.

The reasons you give for not running bigger swaybars is exactly why you do run bigger swaybars. For a given cornering force you need adequate antiroll via springs/bars. A spring is obviously just applying its wheel rate to prevent roll but the sway bar has double the torsion because in order to roll one side goes down and one side goes up. But In single wheel bump you have the rate of the spring + just the torsion (not double) to transfer load to the car.

In short, swaybar doubly effects roll than it does single wheel bump. And two wheel bump completely takes sway bar out equation all together.

Of course there are downsides which is why I like to look at the bars effects on roll as a percentage of overall roll rate.


Certainly true. Swaybars can cause weird behavior because they load shocks different depending on single wheel bump, double wheel bump, or pitch/dive. Again, sticking with a reasonable percentage of total roll, it will all be just fine.

 

Probably a case of people making assumption on what others are thinking... But on this comment, softer springs would cause more roll and a greater resultant moment. Same rate from bar, less rate overall.

 

Yes, but you essentially reduce the effect/contribution of the bar as you go up in spring rate (if the bar stays the same).

 

Care to share the spreadsheet?

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree for the most part. Roll stiffness is roll stiffness, I just prefer mine to come from the springs and shocks rather than the roll bars. Just trying to say that bigger bars aren't always a must have mod. I know I am in the minority on this and that is fine with me.

 

Very true, but from factory the OEM's tend to have the bars contribute more to roll stiffness than the springs for ride comfort. By going up in rates the bars contribute less to the overall roll stiffness and it really comes down to preference really.

Some people are more comfortable with the corners working more independently, most are more comfortable with the tying the left and right together more.

 

I have a thread from a couple years ago about calculating the swaybars and how I got all the numbers. But cant share that particular spreadsheet, too much other stuff in there and honestly I confuse myself half the time I look at it.