Aight, I'll tell you what I know then. 03lances sent me his ROM a few days back, and he's got all the multipliers as 19, which is 1 above the stock lancer values (of 18). He had what he believes to be phantom knock, and turned that up 1 tick to keep it from occuring. I can't remember the single and triple gain right now, but I believe they were stock evo numbers.

The key is this, knock is just a microphone, so if you remove cats, add power, stiffen things, anything that will increase noise can make modifications to what the knock sensor will see, it can make a difference without knowing how accurate the knock sensor really is.

Now, with that in mind, there isn't a good way to find out how "off" you are with the knock sensors, other than using a dyno to truely tune the car and then adjusting the knock sensors accordingly.

So, If JRR had perfect results with the evo settings, you are having pretty good results with the evo settings, and the only adjustments that 03lances made (i mean, sort of fudging this, but you get the idea...he did add 1all the way across) were the high and low multipliers. Maybe that mid knock multiplier hits pretty much the whole range, and if we had a higher rev limit, then the "high muiltiplier" would kick in, like past 6500 or something. Still, I say just be safe like you are saying, and stick with the evo settings,, I'm going to do that as well. Then, if you really see some sort of power loss, like you have to pull super duper amounts of timing, then revisit the issue, but that's not what you've got going on now, right? Just 1-3 counts? If so, have you "tuned for power" yet, or are you just trying to remove all knock atm?

 

With my car in particular I have noticed I get higher knock counts in the middle load levels at mid to higher rpms (3500+) for some reason. Say for example I am on the highway doing 75 and I give it maybe 40% throttle I can see higher knock counts, now if I then floor it they almost instantly drop to nill to nothing. Not sure why yet I have not addressed the issue but I will be once I get some free time. I have determined it was phantom knock with roadspikes help, we kept lowering the timing to the point where my performance was really hurting and I could still get knock counts over 10 just by doing simple fast shifts or different throttle positions at different rpms. One thing is I know I need to change my throwout bearing, it only makes noise when I am releasing the pedal in gear which could easily be affecting my knock sensor.

If you are thinking of adjusting the knock settings I would take the necessary steps to confirm if its is phantom knock or not.

 

basically what you just said is whats happening to me, I was going 75 on the highway towards the airport to take my G-ma there so she can fly home. I accelerated about 40 or I did a wot and I had a 3 count knock or where the cel light flashed slowly 3 times. Usually when I log the car from what I learned from the recompile vids is that if the contiuously knock through out the spreadsheet then its a real knock. im not sure how you can determine if its phantom knock.

 

This all makes a lot of sense. My one remaining question then, is are the knock sensors on the 4g94 and 4g64 the same, because if they are, then we ought to be perfect leaving the knock multipliers the same. If they are different, then it would make sense to swap them over to the same stuff as the base lancer.

 

I will proabbly just stick with the stock settings then, and if not I will probably have to take it to a dyno or someplace and get it tuned to figure out this issue. The dynos here are very expensive over 250 plus per hour... one guy will do it for 100 an hour but he doesnt open port tune so im basically screwed until I save up some money. I will see whats up maybe I have something loose on the car that makes the knock sensor go off. But its mostly 3 counts but still even if 3 is the safe kncok count I wont take the chance unless I have a motor waiting for me as a backup

 

It isnt necessarily the sensor itself but the harmonics of different engines that necessitates the needs of different settings. The harmonics of the 4G63 are different than that of the 4G94. Its risky business IMO adjusting the knock settings but sometimes its what you have to do. In my case even though I am positive I was not experiencing real knock this does not change the fact that the ecu did and took the appropriate action to attempt to remove it by lowering my timing and therefore reducing my performance.

 

Yeah, from what I can tell JRR, Senate, and ...I can't remember who, but basically everyone I have seen has left them "evo stock" when using the evo rom. I don't necessarily think it's perfect, as the knock settings for the lancer are what they are, so they should be the same in the evo rom, since we aren't changing out the knock sensor. Having said that....everyone but 03 lances seems to get relatively similar knock results when on the evo ecu, and the only guy (who we all trust a lot) that has seen the stock lancer multipliers is RoadSpike. So, I think sticking with the evo ECU settings are pretty good for now, unless you have a reason to change. The only real problem is that in the mid range, multipliers are the same....but the high one appears to be less sensative, so I'm a bit scared of that. I think it's less sensative, not really sure. I wish Senate or Roadspike were here....lol


Just FYI, the knock sensors do appear to have different part numbers for the evo vs the lancer. I think I'm going to stick with stock, unless I see the same results as 03lances where same timing and AFR produces much more knock than with the lancer rom. If that happens, I'll try to "stock lancer" settings, if they are really that from what road spike says. Anyone know a good way to check roadspike's work, and find out if it really is 18 all the way through on the multiplier, and the different single and triple gains?

 

Has anyone tried to replace the microphone with an evo one?

it kinda makes more sense if its possible but then you have to mess with the wiring..... unless its easy

 

Alright guys here the status about the car

Im leaning more towards keeping the lancer and heres why

Like senate said cost go up when owning an evo and my parents need more money for reasons they dont want me saying and made me realize if I owned the evo My parents wouldnt get the money they needed help with , And when I pay off my credit card I think im going all the way with my car.

So im going to keep the lancer until futhur notice to see what my dad is doing about his money issue!!! I'm also going to try to fit on the evo 8 front bumper and see how that goes so I can at least feel like I own one.

But if I keep the lancer these are the Future plans probably aiming towards June of 2011

GT35R turbo
Lower compression pistons I think 8:1 if I remember correctly
K1 Rods "reppin Demons rods"
ACL rod bearings
Port polish
Ignition Upgrade
Cams "please recommend what kind" looking at a stage 2 so I can keep at as a DD
Full Exhaust upgrade to 3" so bye bye magnaflow muffer because its only rated at 2.5" for the inlet and 4" for the outlet

 

I'm like you...thinking ahead way before I'm done with my current "stuff", lol. I'm onboard with the pistons, I think 8.8:1 is what a lot of people agree works well. But yeah, I'll be getting pistons and rods like you're talking as well, once I sort of see the light at the end of the tunnel. With the whole economy thing, I've been eating at home a lot more, spending less on clothes, games, pc parts, etc etc...

always have to keep that money thing in mind. Best advice I've gotten to date is "never be in debt". See if you can't be at even or better, like no credit cards, no car payments...and if you have a lucky spot, no house payment. The less you waste on interest, the richer you get...so keep that in mind. save up an extra year, and you'll be better off...might even get an evo 3 or 4 years down the line, and enjoy it more...that's my plan, if I don't have a kid between now and then, lol.

Oh, and for Cam...be careful not to go too big, because you need the cam to fit where the car makes most of it's power. a big ol honker of a cam, like 272 or whatever isn't really going to help a bunch. Best to get a stage1 (stock mirage) cam, maybe stage 2...but really, probably ok to stick with the stage 1. Think about polishing up your throttle body too, and upgrading your suspension before adding too much power with all the other stuff. How is your wheel hop btw, do you get any? and do you have standard stock motor mounts? I'm thinking about "window welding" mine, since they look like they are aging a bit....7 years will do that.

 

I was also looking into that when mine was getting tunned , the tunner (Really good friend of mine at Jms Racing) said that the motor was getting alot of knock on the knock sensor so there was not much timing added so he told me to look into a Evo knock sensor aswell . He added very little to no timing and i was able to run a 14.0 @ 97 on 10psi

 

yeah that was it bro 8:8:1 lol, I heard its just alot easier to tune plus you can run more psi, this economy does blow thats why im leaning on the lancer a little more but your right maybe I should wait a little longer to see how things turn out and once things get better I can uprgrade to something better. I didnt think about a stage 1 cam though... I considered ours a stage 1 for some reason but know I feel like an idiot lol. I dont get alot of bouce its the way you let out your clutch if you let it out nice and smooth you should be just fine but my suspension is starting to wear down I can hear some sore of scraping noise so I need to take it easy and get ready to upgrade. For the motor mounts I read you can use the evo 8 stock ones. The front is easy to change but the rear is hard to do for some reason. How much longer you got till you start your build? you got me dying over here beucase you will be one of the turbo lancers that is close to my area as well as 02-Lancer-Es but hes about 8-10 hours away from my area lol

yea I was thinking about that earlier and it might be a really good idea I just dont know exactly how do you hook it up? do you plan on doing the same thing?

 

I have to agree with Anderson here. When I decided to go turbo I also decided nothing was going on credit so I worked my *** off and paid for everything in my build with cash. I will say I used to be the payment king I coud never save money but could always "pay it off" quick. This build also taught me its not impossible to save money and not have a payment. Now that all I have is my house payment and day to day bills I plan on paying for everything cash (except cars and houses of course) but even cars I plan at least half down or more

 

My build will probably start the day I sell my Buick. The wife doesn't want 4 insurance payments, so I have to sell the Buick to bring the Scion to our house (it's her brother's and he's in Afghanistan right now, so he told me to "keep it running" for him instead of letting it sit and rot). Anyway, I'm listing our Buick at 1500 on craigslist to see if anyone bites, and if not every week I'm going down 100 bucks until it sells. With a spare car, I could start, but I just don't trust the buick and it's got no A/C...and I'm not able to find the refridgerant leak for some reason.

Probably....starting October 25th I think, because this weekend I have an e-mail migration and I've got to go to my first "gay wedding" on the following weekend.

How far are you from me, and where is the nearest drag strip....also, try searching for "austin drag strip" and you won't find what you want...

 

just had a few questions

what is the intake manifold rated to for hp wise
what is the most hp you can run with a stock cam?

are the 8:8:1 pistons a direct fit in or when replacing pistons do you have to adjust the fitting?

edit** im going to do some research first before asking