Sonic, just relax man! Just be happy with the Evo you have right now! Nobody is forcing you to buy it. What the hell dude!? Yeah, think about the R34........

 

I think its very possible to build a safe, lightweight, steel unibody frame. However you are right, making the car safer and complying with the new laws has made the Evo X heavier and consequently it will (most likely) not be able to compete with it's lighter brethren unless it comes from the factory with 285 hoosiers on all four wheels =) This is why I am so glad I purchased (although heavy) one of the better Evo's in production. The 8 & 9 will be glorified in spocom history as a legend, ala supra, GTR, rx7, STI, NSX, etc...while the X with its American designed muscle chassis has a very uncertain future indeed. I am just worried that the Evo lineage has finally died...it saddens me to think that one of my favorite cars no longer exists.

 

Bod roll is not the issue. Performance, generally in terms of accelleration, braking and turning is about moving the weight (mass) fo the car. The more mass the more power it takes to move it in any of those directions.

For example... if you have a 3250 pound car that makes 250WHP, each WHP has to move 13 pounds. Now, if you have a car that weighs 3450 and makes the same power... each WHP has to move 13.8 pounds It may not sound like much but it adds up. Put it another way... your 3450 pound car would have to make 265WHP.

Most everyone wants more power and less mass. That's why you see people get a little bent out of shape when they hear the car will be heavier, even though it is slated to make more power too. IMO, the car is too heavy already... sure would like to see it sub 3000 pounds.

PS Considering a heavy Honda is 2600 pounds... some are a litght as 2200 pounds... you can see why they car so quick... when they get traction... that is!

 

The R34 is more famous because of its advanced suspension and electronic drivetrain + its huge power capabilities. However it is heavy and handles poorly compared to smaller cars, but does extremely well for how heavy it is.


You're right...I guess I should be happy. I just hope Mitsu never stops producing parts for the older 4G63's & Evo's =) Now that would make me pissed!

 

Sonicnofadz, I think you're overstating the impact of a 6% weight gain in an entirely new chassis. Does your tercel handle like dogs ***** as soon as a 170 lb passenger sits in it? Because that represents a nearly 10% increase in weight. But i'd bet you can hardly discern the difference, and that's with zero chassis changes.

The evo x, being an EVOLUTION, can easily overcome a 6% weight increase with only a possibly lower Cg, slightly stiffer spring, better weight distribution, or slightly wider tires, etc. And it is possible to make all of these improvements simultaneously, it is possible to vastly improve it's performance with a 200lb weight gain.

Finally, with regard to your evoII analogy you seem to forget that adding larger turbos, larger brakes, electronic gadgets to the drivetrain, larger wheels, larger tires, and modern safety equipement will all ADD to the curb weight of that car. All of those items have a weight cost, but are ALL offset by increase performance.

 

Yes a 200lb weight increase in my Toyota is very noticable. I actually use this car to tote around engines and transmissions (no passenger seat) so I indeed know how it feels when it is weighed down. However you are correct, maybe magically it will handle even better with another 200lbs added, if this is the case then the only thing that will be lost is gas mileage. However in reality, it is in every car enthusiast's hopes that a new platform will be LIGHTER not HEAVIER so I think I'm justified in my complaints.

Replacing the wheels with wider lightweight rims will not add weight, only grip. Larger turbos don't really add substantial weight. Larger brakes may add a little weight, but not really. I never said anything about added safety equipment? Who cares about safety? Certainly not I =)

 

If you're concerned about weight and don't care about safety what about just gut the Evo X.

 

The new Lancer is going to be 2.7" wider than the current one. The X will be even wider than that and also wider than the current Evo. I'm pretty sure you can fit 305s in the Evo X. Along with wider tires, more advanced drivetrain, better brakes, better suspension, and more power I'm almost sure that the extra 200 pounds will be negated. At worst the Evo X will be just as fast and handle just as well as the current Evo. When you look back at the older Evos they got heavier, but still got faster for the most part.

As for the engine, I have no clue how robust it will be. I will wait see.

 

The Evo 7-9 looks nothing like the base lancer. This one does. Automatic! I dont know if you guys saw the picture of the engine bay. It seems to me like they have the intake manifold in front and the turbo in front of the firewall (srt4 style) . Dont like it. I guess I will wait to see.

 

gorgeous..

 

where can i buy one...

 

I guess some people just love the attention they get trying to sound smart pissing on something others are excited about. I didn't realize when the Evo X is introduced all old Evos will evaporate and we'll all be forced to buy one. I also didn't realize that someone that is not an engineer working on the project has all the answers and performance figures and capabilities of a car that hasn't been released yet. Amazing.

And please, I'd love to see this Tercel that outhandles Evos "BY FAR." What carefully contrived conditions does it require for this to happen?

 

Here's most of my photos from the NAIAS today. There obviously cars other than the Evo X on here, but since I took A LOT of photos of the X I thought this would be the best forum to post. I've got hi-res and more pics of the X if anyone really wants them.

 

estimate 3200/270= 12 for old evo
estimate 3400/300=11 for new evo

that would relate to less horsepower required to move each pound... thus a quicker car, even if it weighs less or has more than 300 ponies. I am not challenging you entirely, as I am not incredibly knowledgable on automobiles, as many of you evo owners are. I am mearly trying to understand what the real grip is with more weight, as long as they up the hp as well...

i thought it was body roll, but mitsu compensated by giving the evo a wider stance. with more weight comes lots of refinement, which will **** the purists of evo off... climate controls, 650 watt audio systems, and nice interiors weigh a lot... but the guys on the track will rip them out anyway... i am a new potential customer, and they added me by putting in all those new creature comforts.

i have kind of strayed from my question however... what is the issue with weight as long as they add in more hp?

 

You kidding, right? So your telling me better suspension geometry cannot over come extra weight? Your telling me a stiffer chassis cannot resist flex to allow the suspension to control the car better in a turn? Your telling me a more advanced active yaw control wont help?

Im sorry, but you are over-reacting. And there are many other forces involved in turning a car than just 200lbs contributing to inertia. Do you know what center of gravity is? Do you know what the roll center is? Do you realize if Mitsu lowered the CG (center of gravity, sorry I actually have an engineering background) and raised the roll center, the car will have better turn in and cornering ablilty than the current car, regardless of 200 lbs? I suggest you stop crying foul and do some research. Ad we havent even begun to touch on torsional rigidity, weight balace, spring rates, valving for dampers, etc.